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Author Topic:   Fresh Problem with the Ark
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 1 of 328 (94708)
03-25-2004 1:48 PM


There is another problem with the ark that I have not seen addressed:
Clean fresh water for crew and animals.
All the water of the flood is salty to some extent (being a mixture of sea, lake, underground and rain water), and is filled with silt too (according to some versions anyway) -- NOT potable.
The rain only falls (consistently) for 40 d/n's and the ark floats for another 600 plus days before landing.
One of the leading problems to exploring the world in the age of sailing exploration was maintaining sufficient supply of fresh water.
Wheyah did that watah come from?
Enjoy.
This message has been edited by RAZD, 01-03-2005 19:56 AM

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Gary, posted 03-25-2004 3:42 PM RAZD has replied
 Message 6 by Buzsaw, posted 03-25-2004 10:53 PM RAZD has replied
 Message 7 by Bill Birkeland, posted 03-25-2004 11:10 PM RAZD has replied
 Message 15 by 1.61803, posted 03-26-2004 3:21 PM RAZD has replied
 Message 39 by menny, posted 03-27-2004 10:03 PM RAZD has not replied
 Message 65 by CrackerJack, posted 04-30-2004 10:58 AM RAZD has replied
 Message 91 by simple, posted 06-24-2004 5:06 AM RAZD has replied
 Message 263 by TruthisLaw, posted 07-13-2004 7:28 PM RAZD has replied
 Message 283 by John Williams, posted 12-10-2004 4:21 AM RAZD has replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 3 of 328 (94750)
03-25-2004 4:04 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Gary
03-25-2004 3:42 PM


after the rain
He also could store water in casks, urns etc initially, but the problem becomes keeping the water from going bad due to all those microbes they had no idea about. Same with rainwater collected during the first 40 days. Mixing new rainwater with old stored water would be instant contamination.
This adds massively to the storage requirements within the holds of the barge, but that is another problem.
Remember none of these sources are the quality we get from taps and that goes bad after a few days.
AND after the 40 days and until the end of the 600 plus days afloat there is no mention of further rain. Not even after they land on a mountain top.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Gary, posted 03-25-2004 3:42 PM Gary has not replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 5 of 328 (94832)
03-25-2004 9:13 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Wertbag
03-25-2004 7:03 PM


drift
you are getting the drift of this problem all right.
turbid brackish water with rotten putrid corpses
then the sun comes out and you sit
for months, many months, with no fresh supply of water.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Wertbag, posted 03-25-2004 7:03 PM Wertbag has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by PecosGeorge, posted 06-14-2004 11:37 PM RAZD has replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 8 of 328 (94867)
03-25-2004 11:16 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Buzsaw
03-25-2004 10:53 PM


sorry, hypothesis not supported by actual biblical reference is not valid without it being naturally possible.
bringing the animals = mentioned = valid
hypbernation = not mentioned = not valid
what you believe is just rationalizations to attempt to reconcile the impossible with reality ... imao.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Buzsaw, posted 03-25-2004 10:53 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Buzsaw, posted 03-25-2004 11:31 PM RAZD has replied
 Message 31 by Minnemooseus, posted 03-27-2004 5:14 PM RAZD has not replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 9 of 328 (94869)
03-25-2004 11:23 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Bill Birkeland
03-25-2004 11:10 PM


Re: Using Scientific Naturalism to Explain Noah's Ark
I agree to a point. Any supernatural action mentioned in the bible can be used for the creationist model of events. But relying on any other supernatural effect (not mentioned actions) invalidates the argument. It's like deciding what cards are wild after you've dealt the hand.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Bill Birkeland, posted 03-25-2004 11:10 PM Bill Birkeland has not replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 11 of 328 (94880)
03-26-2004 12:36 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Buzsaw
03-25-2004 11:31 PM


hibernation NOT
I know of no scientific hypothesis that depends on thousands of animals hibernating that are physically unable to hibernate naturally.
That is a hail mary rabbit out of the hat solution for which there is no valid reason.
You might just as well say that each animal was enclosed in a stasis cube 1" on a side and stacked in the corner of the bedroom, where Noah and his significant other do their math exercises and eat a lot of fruits.
Or mystically transported to another planet for the duration of the cruise.
it's no different than what scientists and physicists do. They operate with a lot of suppositions. You apply a measure of common sense to what you have to work with.
Each supposition based on observations and facts, unlike this fantasy. Suppositions that can also be tested by future observations.
It's only "no different" to those who do not understand the scientific process.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Buzsaw, posted 03-25-2004 11:31 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 13 of 328 (94965)
03-26-2004 1:20 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by berberry
03-26-2004 1:06 AM


reducio ad absurdium
the fall back to "god can do whatever he pleases" means that nothing in the bible need to have occured ... or that the whole thing was made to appear that way last night. neither position adds knowledge.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by berberry, posted 03-26-2004 1:06 AM berberry has replied

Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 16 of 328 (94990)
03-26-2004 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by 1.61803
03-26-2004 3:21 PM


Re: The Water was supplied by reverse osmosis
with an irreducably complex mechanism LOL

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by 1.61803, posted 03-26-2004 3:21 PM 1.61803 has not replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 18 of 328 (95022)
03-26-2004 7:36 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Buzsaw
03-26-2004 7:24 PM


Re: hibernation KNOTS
Ah yes. When in doubt about anything to say you can always fall back on the old {when you learn you'll understand} passive-agressive pseudo-superiority insults.
As if you have the inside track (a belief not based on fact ... wait that's a tautology)

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Buzsaw, posted 03-26-2004 7:24 PM Buzsaw has not replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 22 of 328 (95031)
03-26-2004 9:09 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Buzsaw
03-26-2004 8:34 PM


Re: hibernation NOT
Ned. If it exists, it should be in the classroom.
necrophilia exists - should there be class demonstrations?

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Buzsaw, posted 03-26-2004 8:34 PM Buzsaw has not replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 25 of 328 (95116)
03-27-2004 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by mf
03-27-2004 10:42 AM


Re: The Water was supplied by reverse osmosis
Rose in all its splendour...
a perpendicular explosion
with its billowing smoke clouds...
...the cloud of smoke
rising after its first explosion
formed into expanding round circles
like the opening of giant parasols...
..it was an unknown weapon,
Could just as easily be the observation of a meteor striking the earth with subsequent explosion on an atomic scale. This has occured several times within the archaeological past.
I fail to see how Gen 6 shows advanced civilization.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by mf, posted 03-27-2004 10:42 AM mf has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by mf, posted 03-27-2004 10:57 AM RAZD has replied
 Message 27 by mf, posted 03-27-2004 11:08 AM RAZD has replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 30 of 328 (95154)
03-27-2004 5:14 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by mf
03-27-2004 10:47 AM


Re: The Water was supplied by reverse osmosis
and yet there is no evidence of any people living that long ever
no fossils that support that story at all
in fact the trend is the other way -- the further back you go the lower the average and maximum age at death parameters become until you get to hominids that were lucky to get to twenty.
IF is a very big word.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by mf, posted 03-27-2004 10:47 AM mf has not replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 32 of 328 (95158)
03-27-2004 5:19 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by mf
03-27-2004 10:57 AM


Re: The Water was supplied by reverse osmosis
So, you are claiming that a tendency to want to develop weapons is evidence of an advanced society? This is logic?
You said evidence of advanced civilization not a state of war.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by mf, posted 03-27-2004 10:57 AM mf has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by mf, posted 03-27-2004 6:39 PM RAZD has replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 34 of 328 (95172)
03-27-2004 6:18 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by mf
03-27-2004 11:08 AM


Re: Dinosaur depictions
KNOWN Creatortionista Dinosaur misrepresentations (if not outright hoaxes):
CH710.1: Dinosaurs on Ica stones
Ica stones, collected by Dr. Javier Cabrera Darquea near the village of Ica in Peru, show ancient drawings of humans hunting or otherwise interacting with living dinosaurs.
The stones are almost certainly modern, created by local villagers to sell to gullible tourists.
CH710.2: Acambaro dinosaur figurines
Thousands of clay and stone figurines discovered in Acambaro, Mexico include figurines of dinosaurs. They are apparently from the pre-classical Chupicuaro Culture (800 BC to 200 AD). Radiocarbon and thermoluminescent dating gives them even older ages. These figurines show that the ancient people were familiar with dinosaurs.
The figurines show every evidence of being recent folk art, fraudulently buried in an archeological excavation. De Peso [1953] made the following observations:
CC101: Paluxy River footprints
Human and dinosaur footprints have been found together in the Glen Rose formation at Paluxy River, Texas.
The footprints reputed to be of human origin are not.
These are but the tip of the iceberg. Most of the claimed evidence (such as your picture) is not in its original location and cannot be dated and properly verified, unlike standard practice in archaeology and paleontology. This means it smells of hoax from the get-go, but ... even if the depiction is an actual ancient artifact, this is no guarantee that the creature was living when found by man.
I suggest you read The First Fossil Hunters for some interesting insight into the process of turning prehistoric fossil finds into myths (notice that the picture on the cover is exactly the same as the 6th one in your article):
explores likely connections between the rich fossil beds around the Mediterranean and tales of griffins and giants originating in the classical world. Striking similarities exist between the Protoceratops skeletons of the Gobi Desert and the legends of the gold-hoarding griffin told by nomadic people of the region, and the fossilized remains of giant Miocene mammals could be taken for the heroes and monsters of earlier times. Mayor makes her case well, but, as with all interpretive science, the arguments are inconclusive. Still, her novel reading of ancient myth--and her critique of the modern scientific mythology that seeks to explain the lack of classical paleontological thinking--is compelling and thought-provoking.
It should be no surprise that fossils of dinosaurs were found by early man and turned into fantastic creatures of the imagination, many with several necks and heads, which of course would not be cited by creatortionistas as no such creatures actually existed.
Imagine finding a fossil plesiosaur far inland and comparing the flippers to bat wings. Compare to dragons.
One thing there is never a shortage of is human imagination.
btw -- which real creature is the "crocodile leopard" supposed to be from the fossil record?
Look further.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by mf, posted 03-27-2004 11:08 AM mf has not replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 36 of 328 (95187)
03-27-2004 6:50 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Lindum
03-27-2004 2:30 PM


Re: Mahabharata
In fact there is nothing to suggest a civilization even as advanced as the egyptian one was at the time they came into contact years after the flood.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Lindum, posted 03-27-2004 2:30 PM Lindum has not replied

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