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Author Topic:   Apparently, Just One More Parlor Trick
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1489 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 4 of 42 (95455)
03-28-2004 6:32 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Brian
03-28-2004 4:34 PM


What reason can Jesus have for mixing clay with his spit and applying it to the man's eyes other than simple entertainment value?
Seems obvious to me; according to the Player's Handbook, divine spells (like Remove Blindness) have material components, just like arcane spells.
Surely the Son of God could cure that man's blindness with a single thought, why go through the Copperfield routine?
Clearly the Son of God is at least a 9th-level cleric (minimum level to cast "Raise Dead") who didn't take the metamagic feats to cast "Remove Blindness" without the somatic, verbal, and material components.
Jesus must have been in big demand for children's parties and the opening of new bazaars, his party tricks probably provided him with a fairly comfortable living.
Not to mention dungeon crawling. Every party needs a cleric!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Brian, posted 03-28-2004 4:34 PM Brian has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by SweeneyTodd, posted 04-09-2004 1:21 AM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1489 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 19 of 42 (97652)
04-04-2004 9:05 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Cold Foreign Object
04-03-2004 3:21 PM


If the gospel writer is myth-making like you have claimed then this type of twist must hurt his story.
Or, alternatively, it's just the sort of embellishment his audience would have expected from a story about someone working magic.
The recording of this type of miracle indicates/demonstrates honesty on the part of the writer - he wrote what happened.
So, essentially your argument is that the account is so ridiculous it must be true?
Why do miracles have material components? It makes sense in Dungeons and Dragons. It doesn't make sense in real life.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 04-03-2004 3:21 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 04-04-2004 7:11 PM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1489 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 21 of 42 (97728)
04-04-2004 8:50 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Cold Foreign Object
04-04-2004 7:11 PM


Negative, it is Brian's argument that the account is so ridiculous it must not be true.
But that's generally a valid argument - ridiculous things are not generally true. So is your argument that it's true, or that it's not ridiculous?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 04-04-2004 7:11 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 04-05-2004 9:51 PM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1489 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 23 of 42 (98005)
04-06-2004 12:19 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Cold Foreign Object
04-05-2004 9:51 PM


Which brings me right back to where I started : If Luke is lying then how in the hell does this help his lie ?
Because misdirection and embellishment are the soul of a fantastic story. The clay business makes the story seem more magical, more legendary.
You clearly never read any fantasy novels.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 04-05-2004 9:51 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 04-06-2004 12:24 AM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1489 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 25 of 42 (98009)
04-06-2004 12:29 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by Cold Foreign Object
04-06-2004 12:24 AM


And so called dumb fisherman have read these fantasy novels 2000 years ago.
The fundamentals of fantasy storytelling are as old as civilization.
Truly you are ignorant of the most basic aspects of cultures and mythology. Maybe you could try addressing my comments with substantial responses? Thanks.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 04-06-2004 12:24 AM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 04-06-2004 4:12 PM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1489 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 28 of 42 (98165)
04-06-2004 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Cold Foreign Object
04-06-2004 4:12 PM


Myth-makers who are attempting to be believed do not create events that hurt their story.
I've shown you how Luke would have expected those details to substantiate his story based on storytelling techniques of the time. Predictably you have no response but to ignore the argument. Well, that's fine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 04-06-2004 4:12 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 04-07-2004 12:46 AM crashfrog has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1489 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 33 of 42 (98846)
04-09-2004 1:25 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by SweeneyTodd
04-09-2004 1:21 AM


An AD&D reference.
AD&D is apostasy. All must cleave to the 3rd Edition words of Tweet, Cook, and Williams or face the fires of perdition!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by SweeneyTodd, posted 04-09-2004 1:21 AM SweeneyTodd has not replied

  
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