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Author Topic:   bulletproof alternate universe
Melchior
Inactive Member


Message 204 of 308 (97147)
04-02-2004 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 202 by simple
04-02-2004 3:33 PM


Re: was it small or not?
Yes. That's something we all can agree upon.
That's sort of the whole point.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 202 by simple, posted 04-02-2004 3:33 PM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 214 by simple, posted 04-02-2004 4:01 PM Melchior has not replied
 Message 220 by RAZD, posted 04-02-2004 4:42 PM Melchior has not replied

Melchior
Inactive Member


Message 218 of 308 (97182)
04-02-2004 4:34 PM
Reply to: Message 213 by RAZD
04-02-2004 4:00 PM


Re: was it small or not?
Oh, I was under the impression that the density is higher in a black hole.
That is, the actual space was more compressed, but the particles stayed the same size.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by RAZD, posted 04-02-2004 4:00 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 224 by RAZD, posted 04-02-2004 4:50 PM Melchior has replied

Melchior
Inactive Member


Message 221 of 308 (97191)
04-02-2004 4:42 PM
Reply to: Message 215 by simple
04-02-2004 4:06 PM


Re: hose light
But changing the speed of light in 'mid-flight' changes several of it's properties, such as it's freqency. Frequency is what determines what colour and such we see light as.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by simple, posted 04-02-2004 4:06 PM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 225 by RAZD, posted 04-02-2004 4:52 PM Melchior has not replied
 Message 230 by simple, posted 04-02-2004 6:57 PM Melchior has not replied

Melchior
Inactive Member


Message 226 of 308 (97201)
04-02-2004 4:54 PM
Reply to: Message 224 by RAZD
04-02-2004 4:50 PM


Re: was it small or not?
How does this affect the gravitational effect of the black hole, then? How do you measure how far from the center of gravity that an object outside the hole is?
Why would a star that collapses into a black hole have a greater gravitational pull as a hole than as a star?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 224 by RAZD, posted 04-02-2004 4:50 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 227 by RAZD, posted 04-02-2004 4:55 PM Melchior has replied

Melchior
Inactive Member


Message 228 of 308 (97205)
04-02-2004 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 227 by RAZD
04-02-2004 4:55 PM


Re: was it small or not?
My previous impression was that since gravitational forces are dependant on the distance to the source, compressing something would mean that any external object or individual internal parts can be closer to all parts of whatever is causing the gravitational distortion.
I haven't really spent much time on black holes, though.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 227 by RAZD, posted 04-02-2004 4:55 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 243 by RAZD, posted 04-02-2004 8:55 PM Melchior has replied

Melchior
Inactive Member


Message 241 of 308 (97315)
04-02-2004 8:44 PM
Reply to: Message 237 by simple
04-02-2004 8:39 PM


Re: light that's yet to be
But that would require fundamental changes in what the stars are made out of (most likely 'inventing' new types of atoms).
Saying that "It magically changes to whatever we need." is not an useful model in any way. If you want us to take you serious, you'll need to actually provide something well thought over which actually says something specific. Otherwise you're just coming up with stuff as you go along.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 237 by simple, posted 04-02-2004 8:39 PM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 244 by simple, posted 04-02-2004 8:58 PM Melchior has replied

Melchior
Inactive Member


Message 246 of 308 (97326)
04-02-2004 9:08 PM
Reply to: Message 243 by RAZD
04-02-2004 8:55 PM


Re: a matter of some gravity
Oh, I am very familiar with that formula. What I was suprised by was that you claim that the internal distances in a black hole isn't changed from it's non-hole state.
To which I responded to say that the only way for something to have a higher centralized deformation due to gravity was if it occupied less space (as per the formula).
So is or is not a black hole denser than the star it was 'made' from?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 243 by RAZD, posted 04-02-2004 8:55 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 248 by simple, posted 04-02-2004 9:12 PM Melchior has not replied
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Melchior
Inactive Member


Message 247 of 308 (97328)
04-02-2004 9:10 PM
Reply to: Message 244 by simple
04-02-2004 8:58 PM


Re: light that's yet to be
Just short checkup here... Are you at least slightly familiar with all of the following concepts?
- Frequency
- Wavelenght
- Spectra from stars (based upon the elements within it)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 244 by simple, posted 04-02-2004 8:58 PM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 249 by simple, posted 04-02-2004 9:16 PM Melchior has not replied

Melchior
Inactive Member


Message 289 of 308 (97447)
04-03-2004 7:53 AM
Reply to: Message 280 by simple
04-03-2004 1:13 AM


Re: perfect harmony
Maybe we should illustrate this with numbers. When you change the speed of light, you automatically change what wavelenght a specific source sends out.
It follows a very simple formula. wavelenght = speed of light / frequency
For example, if we start with a lamp that sends out light at a constant frequency of 6.6*10^14ish Hertz.
Normally, this corresponds to light with a wavelengt of 300000000/(6.6*10^14) = 454 nanometer. This is a rather nice deep blue light.
If we suddenly increase the speed of light by even, say +50%, we get.
A new light with a new wavelenght of 450000000/(6.6*10^14) = 682 nanometer. This is a rather nice bright red light.
So the same source starts producing light with a different wavelenght. Note that the light already produced can't change it's wavelenght in mid-flight because that would require serious screwups both in energy conservation and the location of the beam.
It would be required that the spiritual stars were made up of different atoms in order to give off a different frequency, and then somehow change into normal atoms during the shift. Unless you have a testable model for such radical changes, I suggest you drop it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 280 by simple, posted 04-03-2004 1:13 AM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 290 by JonF, posted 04-03-2004 9:03 AM Melchior has not replied
 Message 292 by simple, posted 04-03-2004 12:58 PM Melchior has not replied
 Message 297 by RAZD, posted 04-03-2004 2:45 PM Melchior has not replied

Melchior
Inactive Member


Message 294 of 308 (97500)
04-03-2004 1:18 PM
Reply to: Message 293 by simple
04-03-2004 1:04 PM


Re: perfect harmony
But you said that the spiritual universe would explain what we see today as having been formed by the exact same mechanisms as we can currently observe.
Hence, if things were radically different in the spiritual universe, we'd notice because we'd see too much messed up stuff out in the universe.
You will have to give us something substantial instead of saying "It magically was done exactly the way I wanted it to be. Isn't it convinient." because that's a totally useless way to deal with the problem.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 293 by simple, posted 04-03-2004 1:04 PM simple has not replied

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