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Author Topic:   chromosome counts
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1493 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 17 of 49 (97747)
04-04-2004 10:40 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by like god
04-04-2004 10:14 PM


And if there are Nephillum present today, they most assuredly would be avoiding chromosome tests. And by the method suggested herein the natural course of mating would produce 46 chromosomed individuals.
Then where do new Nephillum come from? How do they mate with each other without producing diploid individuals?

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1493 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 28 of 49 (98333)
04-07-2004 3:13 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by DC85
04-07-2004 2:06 AM


and as for Adam and Eve if they only had 24 each that would mean they would each give 12 to their offspring.... so it would stay 24
Assuming that there was a condition where a haploid human could survive - a human with only one copy of each chromosome - then Adam's gametes would form in such a way (I imagine) that half of his sperm would have all his chromosomes and the other half would have none at all. In other words you could probably make it work by changing meiosis at a crucial step.
I guess. The problem is that, as far as I know, you can't have haploid mammals - certainly not haploid primates. (Maybe there are some exeptional mammals that allow haploidy?)

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1493 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 31 of 49 (98656)
04-08-2004 10:10 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by like god
04-08-2004 9:21 AM


Adam was left with 23 chromosomes including the "y" leaving hime "male". Every mating of Adam + Eve reproduced the original 24. How would it be otherwise?
That's not possible. When haploid individuals mate, the result is diploid.
You can't give a child half of a chromosome. Therefore any child of Adam and Eve will have Adam's 23 chromosomes and Eve's 23 chromosomes, making it diploid.
Like positive and negative charges that balance the universe, their 24 chromosomes were compatible but the antithesis to the original 24.
The opposite of a physical thing, like a chromosome, can't be another thing. The opposite of a thing is the absence of that thing. There can be no such thing as "antithetical chromosomes."

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1493 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 42 of 49 (98825)
04-08-2004 11:46 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Buzsaw
04-08-2004 10:57 PM


If that be the case, wouldn't humans need to to appear on the scene suddenly?
Our ape ancestor was diploid. We're diploid. You can change the organization of the genes by fusing or cleaving chromosomes, but the amount of genes hasn't changed between our ape ancestor and us now.
The situation Like God is describing actually involves a reduced number of genes.

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Replies to this message:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1493 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 44 of 49 (98843)
04-09-2004 1:19 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by Buzsaw
04-09-2004 1:05 AM


Ape chromozomes fuse together un-naturally
What's unnatural about it?
I guess what I'm asking is how can you have anything produced from partially fused chromozomes while the transition is allegedly going on?
How do you think that you could "partially fuse" something? It's either one piece, or it's two.
I'm no geneticist, so I imagine I don't have the answers you're looking for - assuming you're looking and not taking potshots. But I imagine the human chromosomal pattern came to dominate the human genome when humans experienced that big bottleneck 80k years ago, or whatever.
Mice regularly have variable chromosome numbers, from what I read. Obviously their interfertility is not severely impacted. I don't see why a chromosome fusion would result in immediate nonfertility with non-fused peers.
It's not the chromosome number that makes the human, it's the genes, don't you think?

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