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Author Topic:   Dangerous pro-choice extremists?
nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 1 of 113 (442585)
12-21-2007 5:48 PM


In message #240 is the "Only if Mom says so" thread, NemJuggs claims:
quote:
But we shouldn't forget the fact that both sides have their whacko's and that both sides of the extremist forms have potentially dangerous people within their ranks.
My reply, in Message #278 of that thread (with some slight editing) is below:
Name some "wacko" pro-choice activists or organizations you would consider "dangerous".
Like, name some that have carried out bombings of churches or the offices of some anti-abortion group, or maybe killed some prominent anti-abortion activists, or published their likenesses, home addresses and phone numbers on the internet with "WANTED" above their pictures.
Maybe you can show us some images of screaming picketers outside a church, or Christian adoption agency, demanding that the pregnant women going in not give their baby up for adoption but get an abortion instead.
You know, like your side has.
I think it is abundantly clear that the anti-abortion people have the corner on the violent, criminal extremists.
I hear this claim from conservatives a lot; that when it is pointed out to them how many violent, hate-mongering, radical, and obviously irrational people there seem to be withing the conservative community, they say "Oh well, there's just as many wacko people on the liberal side."
I don't think that's true. At all.
This thread is intended to let conservatives document the liberal equivalents of conservatives who, say, threaten or murder abortion doctors, or picket women's health clinics, or beat up or kill gay people, or break bottles over their heads and send themselves death threats to make it look like they were attacked and threatened and then blame it on liberals, etc.

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Jon, posted 12-21-2007 11:15 PM nator has replied
 Message 8 by Taz, posted 12-22-2007 12:10 AM nator has replied
 Message 9 by anglagard, posted 12-22-2007 12:38 AM nator has replied

  
obvious Child
Member (Idle past 4116 days)
Posts: 661
Joined: 08-17-2006


Message 2 of 113 (442606)
12-21-2007 7:23 PM


Earth Liberation Front. That's a liberal terrorist group.
Still, the point is obvious. Liberals, compared to 'conservatives' and that term should usually be denoted as Religious Conservatives, as libertarians are conservative in fiscal senses, but not often in religious aspects, commit or plan to commit far less violent crimes. Bin Laden is a example of a religious extremist and he planned a operation that killed almost 3,000 people.

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Chiroptera, posted 12-21-2007 7:30 PM obvious Child has replied
 Message 15 by nator, posted 12-22-2007 7:00 AM obvious Child has replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 113 (442607)
12-21-2007 7:30 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by obvious Child
12-21-2007 7:23 PM


Earth Liberation Front. That's a liberal terrorist group.
Huh? I know that the U.S. government defined terrorism for the specific purpose of including groups like the ELF, but are you really going to fall for it? I mean, do you really want to elevate something as mundane as vandalism to the level of terrorism?

It has become fashionable on the left and in Western Europe to compare the Bush administration to the Nazis. The comparison is not without some superficial merit. In both cases the government is run by a small gang of snickering, stupid thugs whose vision of paradise is full of explosions and beautifully designed prisons. -- Matt Taibbi

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by obvious Child, posted 12-21-2007 7:23 PM obvious Child has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by obvious Child, posted 12-21-2007 9:46 PM Chiroptera has replied

  
obvious Child
Member (Idle past 4116 days)
Posts: 661
Joined: 08-17-2006


Message 4 of 113 (442614)
12-21-2007 9:46 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Chiroptera
12-21-2007 7:30 PM


Vandalism? The amount of damage they do is immense per person and they have been known to commit arson when the owners of the properties are there, often at night.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Chiroptera, posted 12-21-2007 7:30 PM Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Chiroptera, posted 12-21-2007 10:23 PM obvious Child has replied
 Message 6 by Omnivorous, posted 12-21-2007 11:06 PM obvious Child has replied
 Message 41 by Omnivorous, posted 12-27-2007 10:19 AM obvious Child has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 113 (442619)
12-21-2007 10:23 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by obvious Child
12-21-2007 9:46 PM


Only in a thoroughly capitalist country could property damage be considered the equivalent to shooting health care providers or blowing up school buses full of children.
-
Oops. Sorry, nator. I see that the thread is intended to talk about alleged anti-prolife terrorism. I'll let oC have the last word; I myself won't say another word.
Edited by Chiroptera, : abortion -> prolife; sorry, too much eggnog, I'm pretty bagged tonight.

It has become fashionable on the left and in Western Europe to compare the Bush administration to the Nazis. The comparison is not without some superficial merit. In both cases the government is run by a small gang of snickering, stupid thugs whose vision of paradise is full of explosions and beautifully designed prisons. -- Matt Taibbi

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by obvious Child, posted 12-21-2007 9:46 PM obvious Child has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by obvious Child, posted 12-22-2007 5:48 AM Chiroptera has not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 6 of 113 (442622)
12-21-2007 11:06 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by obvious Child
12-21-2007 9:46 PM


Obvious liar
obvious Child writes:
Vandalism? The amount of damage they do is immense per person and they have been known to commit arson when the owners of the properties are there, often at night.
Bullshit.
Name the people killed or injured by ELF.
Name the people put at risk of harm by ELF.

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by obvious Child, posted 12-21-2007 9:46 PM obvious Child has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by obvious Child, posted 12-22-2007 2:35 AM Omnivorous has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 113 (442623)
12-21-2007 11:15 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by nator
12-21-2007 5:48 PM


Get off your high horse already
Everything in moderation; no extreme is safe.

Beware the Jabberwock, my son!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by nator, posted 12-21-2007 5:48 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 16 by nator, posted 12-22-2007 7:02 AM Jon has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3292 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 8 of 113 (442624)
12-22-2007 12:10 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by nator
12-21-2007 5:48 PM


Do nazis count?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by nator, posted 12-21-2007 5:48 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by nator, posted 12-22-2007 7:02 AM Taz has replied
 Message 35 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-26-2007 6:16 PM Taz has not replied

  
anglagard
Member (Idle past 837 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 9 of 113 (442628)
12-22-2007 12:38 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by nator
12-21-2007 5:48 PM


Maybe Some Help?
This thread is intended to let conservatives document the liberal equivalents of conservatives who, say, threaten or murder abortion doctors, or picket women's health clinics, or beat up or kill gay people, or break bottles over their heads and send themselves death threats to make it look like they were attacked and threatened and then blame it on liberals, etc.
OK, from what I am reading I understand that the discussion should be related solely to the violence or threat of violence relative to each side of the issue concerning abortion and/or sexual orientation. Am I correct in this assumption?

Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis Bacon
The more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by nator, posted 12-21-2007 5:48 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by nator, posted 12-22-2007 7:06 AM anglagard has not replied

  
obvious Child
Member (Idle past 4116 days)
Posts: 661
Joined: 08-17-2006


Message 10 of 113 (442629)
12-22-2007 2:35 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Omnivorous
12-21-2007 11:06 PM


Re: Obvious liar
So the destruction of millions of dollars of property, grand arson and general violation of basic property rights is acceptable?
We should just excuse the use of pipe bombs and other explosives?
Are you sure you want to go there?
And the ELF had made statements regarding certain areas warning people to stay away. Obviously their plans are going to cause damage. If we can call Muslims who blow stuff up and happen to kill people at the same time terrorists, why can't we do the same for the ELF?
Edited by obvious Child, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Omnivorous, posted 12-21-2007 11:06 PM Omnivorous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Omnivorous, posted 12-25-2007 12:29 PM obvious Child has replied

  
EighteenDelta
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 113 (442637)
12-22-2007 4:37 AM


Haven't the ELF admitted to supporting 'spiking' trees?
http://www.post-gazette.com/forum/20020412edeco12p2.asp
Unfortunately, the debate about the construction of a proposed highway running along the southern shore of Lake Erie has been obscured by mindless acts of vandalism that could result in the death or injury of workers trying to cut down trees.
The ALF is another candidate for 'liberal terrorist groups'
Despite the severely destructive nature of some of these activities, none of the extremist animal rights-related activities analyzed for this report is known to have resulted in the injury or death of another individual. [15: In February 1990 Dr. Hyram Kitchen, Dean of the Veterinary School of the University of Tennessee, was shot and killed on his private farm. One month before the incident, a local police department issued an alert through the FBI's National Crime Information Center that various sources, including mail received by the University of Tennessee, indicated that animal rights extremists had threatened to assassinate a veterinary dean within the following 12 months. No one was ever arrested for the act and there was no claim of responsibility. Some suspect that ALF or another extremist animal rights, group or individual was responsible. It must be emphasized, however, that this suspicion has never been substantiated.] In addition, it is important to note that, unlike in Canada and the United Kingdom, there have been no major incidents involving product tampering or contamination hoaxes claimed by or attributed to animal rights extremists. And, finally, there is no evidence to indicate that firearms were used during the course of any of the documented incidents in the United States.
These aren't pro-choice extremists, they are eco-terrorists and Animal rights activists.
-x
Edited by EighteenDelta, : final statement

Replies to this message:
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obvious Child
Member (Idle past 4116 days)
Posts: 661
Joined: 08-17-2006


Message 12 of 113 (442640)
12-22-2007 5:43 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by EighteenDelta
12-22-2007 4:37 AM


quote:
These aren't pro-choice extremists, they are eco-terrorists and Animal rights activists.
True, but the notion that liberals don't use terrorism is simply wrong.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by EighteenDelta, posted 12-22-2007 4:37 AM EighteenDelta has not replied

  
obvious Child
Member (Idle past 4116 days)
Posts: 661
Joined: 08-17-2006


Message 13 of 113 (442642)
12-22-2007 5:48 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Chiroptera
12-21-2007 10:23 PM


quote:
Only in a thoroughly capitalist country could property damage be considered the equivalent to shooting health care providers or blowing up school buses full of children.
When has a conservative in the US blown up a school bus full of kids?
Notice I'm not disagreeing that religious conservatives are outright nuts in their actions, just that the idea that liberalism excludes terrorism is wrong. The ELF has done massive property damage, including serious ecological damage as well from their many arson sprees. Plus, the ELF as noted before has put the lives of construction workers at serious risk. Again, notice I haven't said that the ELF = Abortion Clinic bombers, just that both sides of the spectrum aren't absolutely against using terrorism.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Chiroptera, posted 12-21-2007 10:23 PM Chiroptera has not replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 14 of 113 (442644)
12-22-2007 6:05 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Jon
12-21-2007 11:15 PM


Re: Get off your high horse already
Jon writes:
quote:
Everything in moderation; no extreme is safe.
But that's just it: Where are the extremists on the side of those who feel that abortion should be legal?
When was the last time you heard of the members of Operation Rescue being shot at by abortion rights activists?
That's a lovely sentiment, but you're propagating the idea that somehow there are "extremists on both sides."

Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Jon, posted 12-21-2007 11:15 PM Jon has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 15 of 113 (442646)
12-22-2007 7:00 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by obvious Child
12-21-2007 7:23 PM


quote:
Earth Liberation Front. That's a liberal terrorist group.
Never heard of them.
Are they a large group?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by obvious Child, posted 12-21-2007 7:23 PM obvious Child has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by obvious Child, posted 12-22-2007 4:57 PM nator has not replied

  
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