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Author Topic:   Voting: A Christian and Civic Duty
dsv
Member (Idle past 3280 days)
Posts: 220
From: Secret Underground Hideout
Joined: 08-17-2004


Message 1 of 14 (220837)
06-29-2005 11:45 PM


This is a brochure that's currently being distributed to Ohio voters personally and many more individuals through web and email channels. It originates from an organization called Awaken America, Inc.

I would like to share it with you and discuss the various "factoid-dropping" references in the article, the impact this has on people, what this reflects on this country's image, or whatever else.

Thank you in advance for your time in this discussion. Here's the article:

Voting: A Christian and Civic Duty

“It is the duty of Christians to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.”
John Jay, first Chief Justice of the United States Supreme Court

America is suffering because many of its leaders have stopped recognizing Gods authority, and many Christians have stopped voting according to Biblical principles. Since 1973, over 40 million innocent, unborn babies have had their lives taken. Same-sex marriage has been legalized in some areas of the United States and is being pushed in governmental institutions and public schools nationwide. Christians are increasingly being persecuted and seeing their religious freedom taken away. As Christians, we are commanded to participate in government and to choose godly leaders. And we owe this participation to the God who created us, to our families and communities, and to the men and women risking their lives to defend our freedom. It starts with you.

All Authority Comes From God

“No one rules unless God has given him the power to rule, and no one rules now without that power from God. The ruler is Gods servant to help you.” Rom. 13:1, 4*

The Branches of our Constitutional Government are Traceable to the Bible: “The Lord is our judge (the Judiciary), the Lord makes our laws (the legislative branch), and the Lord is our king (the executive branch).” Isa. 33:22.

Christians are Commanded to Obey Government: “All of you must yield to the governmental rulers. So, those who are against the government are really against what God has commanded. So you must yield to the government, not only because you might be punished, but because you know it is right.” Rom. 13:1, 2, 5 (see also, 1 Pet. 2:13–14).

Governmental Authorities Are Commanded to Submit to Gods Higher Authority

“So Kings, be wise; rulers, learn this lesson. Obey the Lord with great fear. Be happy, but tremble. Show that you are loyal to his son, or you will be destroyed by his anger.” Ps. 2:10-12.

When Government Stops Following God, it Must be Removed: “The wicked will not rule over those who do right. But, Lord, when you remove those who do evil, also remove those who stop following you.” Ps. 125:3, 5. “Peter and the other apostles replied: We ought to obey God rather than men!” Acts 5:29.

God Requires Your All, Including Your Vote

When the servant in the parable of the talents neglected to invest his one talent, the Master denounced him as a “wicked and lazy servant!” and threw the “worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there [was] weeping and gnashing of teeth.” Matt. 25:14–30. “He has showed you, O man, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy…” Mic. 6:8. “Anyone, then, who knows the good he ought to do and doesn’t do it, sins.” James 4:17. God commands us to use and invest what he has given us including the gift of freedom and the power to preserve it. James 1:17

Christians Are Commanded to Choose God- Fearing Leaders: “Furthermore, you shall select out of all the people able men who fear God, men of truth, those who hate dishonest gain; and you shall place these over them as leaders of thousands, of hundreds, of fifties and of tens.” (Similar to our local, county, state, and federal governments). Ex. 18:21. “You shall surely set a king over you whom the Lord your God chooses.” Deut. 17:15a.

There are Consequences for Making the Wrong Choice: In Matt. 27:15–26, the Governor asked the people to choose who he should release, Jesus, the Christ, or Barabbas, a notorious criminal. The leaders and elders convinced the crowd to “vote” for Barabbas to be freed and for Jesus to be killed. This led to the crucifixion of Jesus. “Doing what is right makes a nation great, but sin will bring disgrace to any people.” Prov. 14:34. “When the righteous rule, the people rejoice; when the wicked rule, the people groan.” Prov. 29:2.

The Current Crisis: Christians Not Participating in Democracy

In the 4 elections from 1992 to 2000, Christian voter turnout declined by 40 percent. In 2000, of the nations 59 million self identified evangelicals who were qualified to vote: 24 million did not even bother to register to vote, and of the 35 million who did register, only 15 million actually voted.

Several Christian public policy organizations have identified that of their own members, who are active participants in trying to restore godly principles to government, 35–45 percent were not even registered to vote. 45 percent of Evangelicals vote according to economic issues above moral issues.

Why Your Vote Counts!

  • ONE VOTE in the House elected Thomas Jefferson President over Aaron Burr, who was later charged with treason.
  • ONE VOTE in the Electoral College elected Rutherford B. Hayes President.
  • By ONE VOTE, California, Idaho, Oregon, Texas and Washington became states. In 1916, Woodrow Wilson was elected President by carrying one state by less than ONE VOTE per precinct.
  • In 1941, ONE VOTE saved Selective Service just weeks before Pearl Harbor.
  • In 1948, Lyndon Johnson, later our 36th President, became senator by ONE VOTE.
  • The 2000 Presidential Election was won by a miniscule number of votes (Florida was decided by only 537 votes, New Mexico, 366) and ultimately by ONE VOTE of the U.S. Supreme Court.

Today, Many of Our Leaders Are Ignoring or Deliberately Trying to Pervert Important Biblical Principles

Marriage: God indicated that it was not good for man to be alone and he made woman for man. Gen. 2:18–25. God indicated that each man is to have his own wife and each wife her own husband. 1 Cor. 7:2. The Bible warns that perverting Gods model for marriage is a sin and will have consequences, like all sin. Rom. 1:26–27, Lev. 18:22, 1 Cor. 6:9–10.

Sanctity of Life: “For you formed my inward parts; you wove me in my mothers womb, I will give thanks to you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made.” Ps. 139:13–14. “Before I formed you in your mothers womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you” Jer. 1:5.

Religious Liberty: The Biblical principles and moral standards upon which our government and society were founded are being removed by ungodly leaders and special interest groups. The many Ten Commandments monuments are only one example. “Pray for rulers and for all who have authority so that we can have quiet and peaceful lives full of worship and respect for God.” 1 Tim. 2:2.

Visit www.ivotevalues.com for more information on what the Bible has to say on the issues that shape our society and how candidates’ voting records compare. Voting is the most powerful way to influence the laws of our society, and those who make them. Register. Vote. Vote your values.


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by jar, posted 06-30-2005 12:03 AM dsv has responded
 Message 3 by Dead Parrot, posted 06-30-2005 12:57 AM dsv has not yet responded
 Message 7 by kjsimons, posted 06-30-2005 8:53 AM dsv has not yet responded
 Message 8 by Chiroptera, posted 06-30-2005 12:10 PM dsv has not yet responded
 Message 12 by crashfrog, posted 06-30-2005 7:12 PM dsv has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32683
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 2 of 14 (220838)
06-30-2005 12:03 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by dsv
06-29-2005 11:45 PM


Voting is certainly a civic duty.
I'd hope that Christians, Jews, Muslims, Atheists, Agnostics, Hindus, Pagans, Satanists and Worshippers of the GPU will join together to elect people who will do a good job of governing.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Dead Parrot
Member (Idle past 1902 days)
Posts: 151
From: Wellington, NZ
Joined: 04-13-2005


Message 3 of 14 (220844)
06-30-2005 12:57 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by dsv
06-29-2005 11:45 PM


"Christian Nation"
This reminds of the "Why America is a Christian Nation" email that's been going around (why they thought a Brit living in New Zealand would give a stuff remains a mystery). Any political literature that contains numerous scriptural quotes without any reference to the constitution brings me out in a rash...

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Replies to this message:
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Slim Jim
Junior Member (Idle past 4800 days)
Posts: 26
Joined: 05-06-2005


Message 4 of 14 (220865)
06-30-2005 3:26 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Dead Parrot
06-30-2005 12:57 AM


Re: "Christian Nation"
Unlike our nipple-fearing overlords in Washington DC, spam does not discriminate.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Dead Parrot, posted 06-30-2005 12:57 AM Dead Parrot has responded

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Dead Parrot
Member (Idle past 1902 days)
Posts: 151
From: Wellington, NZ
Joined: 04-13-2005


Message 5 of 14 (220874)
06-30-2005 4:05 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Slim Jim
06-30-2005 3:26 AM


Re: "Christian Nation"
Spam does not discriminate

Nor does stupidity, sadly...


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 Message 4 by Slim Jim, posted 06-30-2005 3:26 AM Slim Jim has not yet responded

  
dsv
Member (Idle past 3280 days)
Posts: 220
From: Secret Underground Hideout
Joined: 08-17-2004


Message 6 of 14 (220907)
06-30-2005 8:45 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by jar
06-30-2005 12:03 AM


Re: Voting is certainly a civic duty.
I agree Jar, unfortunately it looks like the methodology is something like "By Christians; For Christians".

One thing that disturbs me about this is how there's so many claims made that this is God's and only God's country. The fact that the founding fathers were religious has little to do with assuming they wanted us to live in a Christian-owned society. If they were so religious, why is God and/or Jesus never mentioned in the Constitution?

It’s true, the founders’ letters and speeches plainly demonstrate their deeply held faith in God. Those same letters also demonstrate these are quite intelligent men with a thorough understanding of the world around them.

This would include the various European founding documents of the era. All of the European documents of the time explicitly invoke God and/or Jesus. They grant and deny rights with the authority of God. The United States Constitution does no such thing.

This is very plainly not an oversight, in my opinion. The founders didn’t forget to include "Praise Jesus!” in the constitution. This was a calculated measure to be sure future Americans would not have to flea the country they love just as the founders’ ancestors had to do.

This message has been edited by dsv, Thursday, June 30, 2005 08:46 AM


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kjsimons
Member
Posts: 692
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 7 of 14 (220909)
06-30-2005 8:53 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by dsv
06-29-2005 11:45 PM


Just what we need, a Christian Taliban! :(

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by dsv, posted 06-29-2005 11:45 PM dsv has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 14 (220950)
06-30-2005 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by dsv
06-29-2005 11:45 PM


I find the hysteria in this message funny. For years the radical religious right (and I was once one of them) claimed that the US was essentially a God-fearing nation, and that it was the liberals in charge that were acting against the wishes of the majority of the American people.

Now the religious right has elected a President for a second term, has elected majorities of both houses of Congress, and are currently in the process of packing the judiciary. Not to mention the state governments in the Midwest and especially the South that have always been under their control.

Yet, somehow, they cannot progress in their agenda as fast as they want, and are somehow being completely blocked in certain aspects of it.

Eventually the religious right is going to have to come to grips with the fact that the majority of the American people do not actually share their views at all. If they do, then it will be interesting to see how their opinion of democracy changes.


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Tal
Member (Idle past 4233 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 9 of 14 (220961)
06-30-2005 1:59 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by kjsimons
06-30-2005 8:53 AM


Just what we need, a Christian Taliban!

KKK?

Robert (sheets) Byrd.


"Some say freedom is free...but I beg to disagree. Some say freedom is won, through the barrel of a gun..."
-Army Cadence

"A good plan executed today is better than a perfect plan executed at some indefinite point in the future."
- General George Patton Jr

www.1st-vets.us


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Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 14 (220967)
06-30-2005 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Tal
06-30-2005 1:59 PM


Interesting fact, Tal. Thanks for bringing it up. I found a nice link that discussing this aspect of Byrd's past.

Sen. Robert C. Byrd's new memoir reveals...the unlikely inspiration that helped launch his own political career: A Grand Dragon of the Ku Klux Klan.

It is refreshing to see someone admit to mistakes in his past and discuss them, don't you agree?

It's a mistake he has paid for time and again, the only significant scandal ever attached to a man who grew up in Wolf Creek Hollow and who next June stands to become the longest-serving senator in U.S. history.

Hmm. The only significant scandal? So it would appear that this one aspect to Sen. Byrd's past should be judged in the context of his career, don't you think? At any rate, this is a serious charge. What does Sen. Byrd have to say about it?

It has emerged throughout my life to haunt and embarrass me, and has taught me in a very graphic way what one major mistake can do to one's life, career and reputation.... I displayed very bad judgment, due to immaturity and a lack of seasoned reasoning.

So are we then to use this incident to judge the man today? Aren't people allowed to have mistakes, even serious mistakes, in their pasts?

But why would have joined such an organization, anyway?

As a boy, he watched a parade of white hoods in Matoaka, learning years later his father had been among them. Back then "many of the 'best' people were members," he says, and Byrd was vulnerable to the anti-Communism rhetoric. [Emphasis added.]

Whoa! It was anti-Communism that led Byrd to join such a disreputable group! By the logic I have seen in other threads, this would seem to indicate that anti-Communism is bad, and that anti-Communism should be suppressed -- perhaps by placing onerous record-keeping requirements on organizations that are anti-Communist!

Interesting fact, though -- it does seem that I have heard about this before.

At any rate, what does a admitted mistake made by a man whose subsequent record has shown that he has repudiated that mistake have to do with the OP? Or even the post to which you are replying?


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Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 14 (220996)
06-30-2005 6:04 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Tal
06-30-2005 1:59 PM


I should add there there are more to the allegations of Sen. Byrd being a racist, in particular there are quotes attributed to him indicating racism, and the recent use of a racial epithet. Sen. Byrd has apologized for the latter, and the other quotes mostly seem to date back over 50 years.

I would say that since the NAACP has given Sen. Byrd a very high rating for his concerns to issues important to African-Americans and racism, Sen. Byrd has come along way to atone for whatever racist views that he had in the past.

Now I will repeat my earlier question:

The initial post was about a flyer from a Christian organization trying to get conservative, evangelical organizations to vote in the elections. There is much that is disturbing in that pamphlet, but one of the points is the appearance that this organization is advocating imposing its political, social, and moral views on the entire country regardless of any differences of opinion; certainly there is an air of intolerance to opposing views in that pamphlet. Perhaps I am mistaken in this; this is certainly open to debate and discussion.

kjsimons, evidently also picking up on the theme of intolerance, compared this group to the Taliban. Perhaps this is accurate, perhaps it is acceptable hyperbole, perhaos it is inappropriate. Discussion of this, too, is relevant to the OP.

What I fail to see is how an accusation of racism of a certain individual in a distant past, when this person has evidence for us to believe that he has moved past this racism, is relevant to the religious intolerance currently being expressed in a recent pamphlet.


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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 23 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 12 of 14 (220999)
06-30-2005 7:12 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by dsv
06-29-2005 11:45 PM


I don't like the equivocation of "President" and "King." It's not even technically accurate. A king is not an executive; he's a legislator. His marshalls and sheriffs are executives.

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Replies to this message:
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Silent H
Member (Idle past 4376 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 13 of 14 (221097)
07-01-2005 5:23 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by crashfrog
06-30-2005 7:12 PM


I don't like the equivocation of "President" and "King." It's not even technically accurate. A king is not an executive; he's a legislator. His marshalls and sheriffs are executives.

That is exactly the problem I had when reading it, and usually have when the fundies start talking about how we are a Xian nation and that democracy is some gift from God we are spreading.

Democracy is that antithesis of everything in the Bible. It is about Kings and Kings of Kings, and the end result (they have the end goal right there in the Bible) is a Kingdom on earth, headed by someone who is not chosen (well, I guess he might be by those that aren't slaughtered beforehand).

President and King are not synonymous and the more they are joined in meaning, from any direction, there is danger.


holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by crashfrog, posted 06-30-2005 7:12 PM crashfrog has responded

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 23 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 14 of 14 (221100)
07-01-2005 7:11 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Silent H
07-01-2005 5:23 AM


It is about Kings and Kings of Kings, and the end result (they have the end goal right there in the Bible) is a Kingdom on earth, headed by someone who is not chosen (well, I guess he might be by those that aren't slaughtered beforehand).

Yeah, exactly. I'm not interested in living in the Kingdom of Jesus; I'd prefer a democratically-elected leader.


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 Message 13 by Silent H, posted 07-01-2005 5:23 AM Silent H has not yet responded

  
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