Everything you said regarding women's rights I agreed with, but as usual you lapse into some anti-male agenda which ends up hurting your case, and/or potentially alienating people that might agree with you.
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Don't you think, if one wanted to avoid abortions taking place, one would focus on teaching men to keep it in their pants, and if they can't do that, perhaps teach them to use condoms?
This is truly a sexist comment. Obviously if we are talking about RAPE, then the problem is RAPISTS RAPING and not men keeping their cocks in their pants.
Are you seriously suggesting that rapes make up all abortions, or that women should be given a free ride on sexual responsibility when it is not rape?
If anything this supports messenjaH's position. He is not arguing that women are worthless, just that every life is equally precious and so women do have the potential to get put into positions where they do not get to choose anything they want. If the child and the mother's lives are equal, and every life should be protected, then abortion is wrong.
It is as much a duty for a girl to give birth (under that ideology) as it is to not kill your kid after birth. I do not agree with that equation which is why I support choice, but that is not his position (or at least it was not in his first post) and so your argument ends up being a strawman.
And of course this is why the same people pushing the antiAbortion message often chime your line... abstinence education first! Keep it in or out of your pants, because it is everyone's responsibility to avoid women having to face that issue until they are ready. You will note they are also not too fond of rapists.
They care about women's rights, they just also believe in an embryo's rights too (as equals)
I guess the thing I like about those fundies (in opposition to feminist fundies) is at least they are equal opportunity finger pointers.
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Did you know that adult men are the cause of the majority of underage girls' pregnancies? Who is on their case?
This is ridiculous. With the extreme witchhunt mentality regarding underage sex sweeping the globe, are you seriously telling me no one is one men's cases?
That such things still happen does not indicate no one is doing anything, or saying anything negative about it. It just means that humans do human things. They always have and they always will no matter how 1984 we go.
Frankly, I find the over "victimizing" by our culture of young girls who get pregnant, (viewing each instance as violator-victim) more harmful than helpful. More harmful in general, than the pregnancy itself.
I knew a girl (when I was young) that was bright and cheerful and she got pregnant by an older guy and was kind of shocked but still happy, but then people treated her so much like a victim that she became scarred into thinking of herself that way. It was really sad to watch that young beautiful girl fade away.
I knew another girl that got pregnant under similar circumstances and while the family was a bit scandalized they got over it and she did fine.
Heck I knew a family where ALL the women (at least from the great grandmother on down) had had their first kid at 13. They'd laugh about it and not make a big deal, just helped out where they needed to and in all other ways they were perfectly "normal".
Our current treatment is reminiscent of the "homes for unwed mothers" in the past. Scandalizing women for having been "used" by some "bad man".
This is not to mention society's destroying the men (adult or not) who may have fathered the child. Perhaps instead of imprisoning or publically flogging them, we could just make sure they knuckle down and act responsible for the resulting child.
But I guess it'll always be easier to point fingers when a young girl gets pregnant, making everyone feel bad for the rest of their lives, rather than just helping them out and feel good about themselves.
I wonder if we removed all the fear factor and societal pressure on young girls regarding pregnancy and sex, whether we'd naturally have less abortions or cases where young girls abandon their babies after birth. I'd love some stats on how much the fear of getting caught having "underage sex" has kept girls from using protection or getting the healthcare they needed once pregnant.
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The fact is, it's much easier to lay blame after the fact instead of working to prevent it in the first place.
Yeah, let's work on castrating all men now! That way we don't have to blame MEN later. Heheheh.
Or maybe we could never "blame" ANYONE when pregnancies occur, except of course for blaming rapists for rapes.
Perhaps we could even calm down about sex in general and not freak out when looking at statistics, as if they are delivering moral messages about "where we are headed".
Pregnancies happen when PEOPLE choose to have vaginal sex, and it'll even happen with condoms. Being negative before during and after sex just isn't helpful, even if you tell them about condoms.
Beforehand, sex education ought to be positive, and show how to eliminate risks (including the obvious choice of abstention or masturbation for complete safety). That way during sexual activities everyone (even young girls with older men) know how to minimize or eliminate risk.
Then if someone takes a risk and comes out on the wrong side of the dice roll, have everyone deal positively with the situation. If the girl wants to keep the child then it ought to be a nonissue, and treated as something positive. If she doesn't want it, then it should be a health issue and taken care of calmly like any other medical procedure.
The momentum should be against making anyone feel bad, because they have to deal with the results of their choice. Beating them down doesn't help.
That goes for men and women, or boys and girls, alike.
But I guess that's my two cents, which may be just as alienating to others as yours.
holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)
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