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Author Topic:   Peter Popoff is back!
kalimero
Member (Idle past 2444 days)
Posts: 251
From: Israel
Joined: 04-08-2006


Message 1 of 39 (388941)
03-09-2007 7:43 AM



Replies to this message:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 2 of 39 (388946)
03-09-2007 9:32 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by kalimero
03-09-2007 7:43 AM


P.T.Barnum was right
So he pays himself $600,000 a year? Free Miracle Spring Water? free sacred Dead Sea Salt with every bottle?????
How can people be so gullible???
Its because people are always in search of the quick fix.
Popoff preys on the very characteristics of human nature that allow people to give him money. There are many like him.
Look at his website! Peter Popoff Ministries – Dream Bigger
Whats even more funny is watching Randi expose both him and Uri Geller!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9w7jHYriFo
Edited by Phat, : spelling
Edited by Phat, : website
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 3 of 39 (388948)
03-09-2007 9:48 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by kalimero
03-09-2007 7:43 AM


Not everybody has the same idea about how to determine what is factual. For instance, while reasonable people might conclude "that which is supported by the preponderance of evidence is probably correct", a certain type of person believes that "that which is opposed by the preponderance of evidence is probably correct, because things are not usually what they seem."
So, if Popoff has been regularly drubbed by a hundred exposures of his misdirections and frauds, that's enough to convince a few people that he's for real.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by kalimero, posted 03-09-2007 7:43 AM kalimero has not replied

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Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 4 of 39 (388954)
03-09-2007 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by crashfrog
03-09-2007 9:48 AM


When the absence of evidence is proof
crashfrog writes:
So, if Popoff has been regularly drubbed by a hundred exposures of his misdirections and frauds, that's enough to convince a few people that he's for real.
More than a few, I fear.
I think you've put your finger on a major phenomenon, a twist on the old bromide that the enemy of my enemy is my friend: "Beliefs questioned by those who question mine are probably true."
So, unsurprisingly, we see evangelicals embracing bizarre altnerative histories, herbalist quackery and other pseudoscience, taco miracles, conspiracy theories, etc. As we have seen so many times here at EvC, these beliefs and oppositions are invariably reflexive and without any critical analysis, each merely another flavor of "If the godless secularists oppose it, it must be good and true." And like some weird cognitive trial by Kafka, the very lack of evidence becomes a clincher: a total lack of evidential support proves the truth is being suppressed. It is a thought disorder that endangers us all.
One of the most regrettable examples is the evangelical community's hateful response to the environmental movement. Now that some more thoughtful evangelicals have been persuaded that the godly and the godless alike benefit from a stable climate and a healthful environment--and even that their own scriptures tell them to be good stewards of the earth--they are being accused of being traitors to their cause.
It is, as I think Pogo once said, a viscous circle. I wish I knew how to break it.

Real things always push back.
-William James
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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 39 (388956)
03-09-2007 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by Phat
03-09-2007 9:32 AM


I just wrote to him
I just wrote to Peter and asked him how he could look at himself in the mirror everyday knowing he's such a monumental piece of shit!
Then I dropped a Scripture bomb on him in the unlikely event that there is still an inkling of a true belief in Jesus still left inside of him. Naturally I chose all the verses that speak about wolves, such as he is, preying on the sheep.
But you know Phat, as you said, he can't get rich in a vacuum. I want to know the people that are believing in this and sending him money for California tap water and table salt.

"He has shown you, O man, what is good; And what does the Lord require of you but to do justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God. -Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by jar, posted 03-09-2007 12:10 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 7 by crashfrog, posted 03-09-2007 12:20 PM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 8 by ringo, posted 03-09-2007 1:25 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 6 of 39 (388962)
03-09-2007 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Hyroglyphx
03-09-2007 11:38 AM


Re: I just wrote to him
There is an interesting Exel spreadsheet on line at this location.
It list the salaries declared by various Christian Televangelists, the income and also additional salaries noted on their returns. All together Popoff and family take over one million in salaries alone.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 7 of 39 (388963)
03-09-2007 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Hyroglyphx
03-09-2007 11:38 AM


Re: I just wrote to him
I want to know the people that are believing in this and sending him money for California tap water and table salt.
Go to church on Sunday and look around.
I mean, what's fundamentally different about what Popoff is doing and the guy in the dress who waves his hand over wine and crackers and tells me it's now the blood and body of Christ? Aside from popularity?
It's great that you approach these claims critically, NJ, and I don't mean to discourage your nascent skepticism. Simply, I'm using your remarks to take an opportunity to explain how, as Popoff's claims appear to you, so the claims of religion appear to people like me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Hyroglyphx, posted 03-09-2007 11:38 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Hyroglyphx, posted 03-09-2007 2:13 PM crashfrog has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 8 of 39 (388969)
03-09-2007 1:25 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Hyroglyphx
03-09-2007 11:38 AM


Re: I just wrote to him
nemesis_juggernaut writes:
Then I dropped a Scripture bomb on him in the unlikely event that there is still an inkling of a true belief in Jesus still left inside of him.
Well, I've dropped Scripture bombs on you and it didn't have much effect.
Popoff is just one of many. Believe it or not, there are actually people out there selling videos that claim **snicker** that the earth **snicker** is only **snicker** six thousand years old. And people buy that crap. At least tap water and table salt are useful.

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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 39 (388975)
03-09-2007 2:13 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by crashfrog
03-09-2007 12:20 PM


Re: I just wrote to him
what's fundamentally different about what Popoff is doing and the guy in the dress who waves his hand over wine and crackers and tells me it's now the blood and body of Christ? Aside from popularity?
Popoff is a swindler just like most of the TBN crew who are either themselves swindlers or grossly misinformed. There is still a great majority of Christians who understand the message presented in truth and reject, wholly, the acts of men like these whom people such as Paul and Jesus told us about as a caveat.
It's great that you approach these claims critically, NJ, and I don't mean to discourage your nascent skepticism. Simply, I'm using your remarks to take an opportunity to explain how, as Popoff's claims appear to you, so the claims of religion appear to people like me.
I understand that. This is precisely why people such as myself are a little more than irritated by people such as Popoff. The sad thing is for most unbelievers out there, their only avenue of understanding Christians is through TBN or some other derivative. A lot of atheists are under the impression that this is what it is like for most Christians. Well, it isn't. These people do a disservice not only to Jesus, but the entire Body.

"He has shown you, O man, what is good; And what does the Lord require of you but to do justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God. -Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by crashfrog, posted 03-09-2007 12:20 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by crashfrog, posted 03-09-2007 2:36 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 10 of 39 (388981)
03-09-2007 2:36 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Hyroglyphx
03-09-2007 2:13 PM


Re: I just wrote to him
This is precisely why people such as myself are a little more than irritated by people such as Popoff. The sad thing is for most unbelievers out there, their only avenue of understanding Christians is through TBN or some other derivative.
I'm no stranger to the Christian community, having been a part of it for a great many years. It's not clear to me what distinction you're trying to draw, here. Sure, Popoff's claims are ridiculous.
You seem to have trouble understanding that I feel the exact same way about the core claims of Christianity, and that doesn't have anything to do with TBN or any of the other evangelical hustlers. Whether the claims of Christianity are being promulgated by Jimmy Swaggert or by the pastor up the street, they're no less ridiculous. And I don't find it any less fraudulent to say "accept Jesus, and you'll meet your loved ones in the afterlife" than it is to say "send my ministry $100 and be healed of all that ails you."
Is it all ridiculous? No, of course not. I'm not saying you should crap where you eat, even though the Bible, which I hold in little esteem, says you shouldn't. Some of that stuff is just good sense. But I don't find the spiritual world of Gods and saviors any more credible than Popoff's claims of divine abilities. And it's not clear what undistorted picture of Christianity you think I'm ignorant of that would make all that stuff appear reasonable. Could you elaborate on that? In what way do you feel my conception of Christianity is skewed?
Edited by crashfrog, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Hyroglyphx, posted 03-09-2007 2:13 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by anastasia, posted 03-09-2007 3:26 PM crashfrog has replied
 Message 13 by Hyroglyphx, posted 03-09-2007 5:08 PM crashfrog has replied

  
anastasia
Member (Idle past 5952 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 11 of 39 (388985)
03-09-2007 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by crashfrog
03-09-2007 2:36 PM


Re: I just wrote to him
You are entitled to your beliefs, but there are major differences in what Popoff is doing and what priests do, for example.
No one has the right to make fraudulant claims such as 'meeting loved ones' or 'instant healing'. We simply have no idea who or what we will recognize in heaven. But there is a big difference in a belief, and a purposeful fraud. Popoff knows he is full of crap. He knows he has someone piping information to him, and that is wrong, and lying is not 'christian'. I have known priests who have left the ministry because they felt like they were somehow part and peddlar to a scam. That's the honest thing to do, and it has been proven beyond a doubt that Popoff is not honest. Therefore, Christians can definitely regard him as outside of any Christ-like behaviour.
People are gullible, and that is sad. It is sad when they fall for a purposeful scam. Maybe God takes pity on some and they are truly healed. Maybe that perpetuates the fraud. But if we are not dealing with fruads, only beliefs, we are all gullible, you included. If it turns out there is a God, you have certainly been fooled badly. We can only wait and see, but in the meantime, there is really no high-ground.
Edited by anastasia, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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 Message 14 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 03-09-2007 5:21 PM anastasia has replied
 Message 17 by inkorrekt, posted 03-11-2007 7:26 PM anastasia has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 12 of 39 (388987)
03-09-2007 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by anastasia
03-09-2007 3:26 PM


Re: I just wrote to him
No one has the right to make fraudulant claims such as 'meeting loved ones' or 'instant healing'. We simply have no idea who or what we will recognize in heaven.
Do you dispute that these claims are often made, though?
What happens in heaven is just an example. There's plenty promised to Christians in return for belief. I'm not saying that it's that simple, but even the testimony of individual believers includes stuff like "when I decided to believe, I felt a great burden depart from me." Even the receipt of comfort constitutes the sort of religious quid pro quo that, to my mind, is indistinguishable from the promises of hucksters.
If you don't get anything out of Christianity, after all, why would anybody believe in it?

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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 39 (388995)
03-09-2007 5:08 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by crashfrog
03-09-2007 2:36 PM


My judgment will be greater.... and its not something for me to brag about
I'm no stranger to the Christian community, having been a part of it for a great many years.
A parody I've seen is called, "You may be a fundy atheist if...."
    You seem to have trouble understanding that I feel the exact same way about the core claims of Christianity
    I understand what you are saying and I believe your sincerity. But it doesn't negate the possibility that you might be ignorant of what the core of Christianity actually entails as opposed to what you think it entails.
    Whether the claims of Christianity are being promulgated by Jimmy Swaggert or by the pastor up the street, they're no less ridiculous.
    What are you basing your judgment on?
    And I don't find it any less fraudulent to say "accept Jesus, and you'll meet your loved ones in the afterlife" than it is to say "send my ministry $100 and be healed of all that ails you."
    I don't go to spiritual pep rallies, which, admittedly, many churches have resorted to rather than showing a true deference to God. The "feel good, don't say anything that might be construed as negative" churches are the opposite, but equally incorrect, kind of church that preaches damnation, hellfire, and brimstone. Besides, the Bible says that when we see our loved one's, its in a totally different context where whatever human relationship was fostered in this life is inconsequential to the hereafter.
    I don't find the spiritual world of Gods and saviors any more credible than Popoff's claims of divine abilities.
    That's all fine and good, however, I trust you might be able to distinguish the difference in motives between a good pastor and Popoff. Popoff is aware that he is a swindler, as evidenced by his reaction to the reporter. Any good pastor would never fleece his flock or have any nefarious plans in mind.
    And it's not clear what undistorted picture of Christianity you think I'm ignorant of that would make all that stuff appear reasonable. Could you elaborate on that? In what way do you feel my conception of Christianity is skewed?
    What leads me to believe that is your apparent inability to distinguish between somebody like Popoff from somebody like, for instance, Ravi Zacharias or C.S. Lewis. There is a profound and marked difference. Aside from which, I am often taken aback when confronting an individual who appears to hate the concept of God and His precepts. They are unrelenting in their pursuit to discredit the Word of God and the people that follow it. It’s almost humorous that the many people who claim the Bible to be fallacy often have read little more than a few pages. Is that fair?
    Since no one willfully seeks to be thought of by their peers as ignorant, when asked if they’ve honestly read the Bible, the answer is usually with a confident and a resounding, “Yes, of course!” However, their personal exegesis typically does not accurately convey the message being portrayed by them. Should I assume by their platitudes that I have either caught them on a bad day, in where their memory is not what it should be, or that they are lying to me about their Biblical expertise or their grasp of the Christian ethos as a whole?

    "He has shown you, O man, what is good; And what does the Lord require of you but to do justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God. -Micah 6:8

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 10 by crashfrog, posted 03-09-2007 2:36 PM crashfrog has replied

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    AnswersInGenitals
    Member (Idle past 150 days)
    Posts: 673
    Joined: 07-20-2006


    Message 14 of 39 (388996)
    03-09-2007 5:21 PM
    Reply to: Message 11 by anastasia
    03-09-2007 3:26 PM


    Popoff rocks!
    No one has the right to make fraudulant claims such as 'meeting loved ones' or 'instant healing'
    In most countries, including the US, people do have the right to make unprovable claims if it doesn't concern a testable product. Religions do not have to submit their 'product' to the FDA for validation. And christianity is full of unprovable claims of highly desired rewards for particular behaviors.
    Actually, I'm a great admirer of Popoff. In the same way that I admire Tom Cruise, Madonna, Sting, and the people who operate the lotteries. They understand their audience and give them exactly what they want. Why do film producers pay a name actor $20 million when there are equally competent no-names that will work for scale? We, the audience, are attracted to that familiar face, the familiar message and the movie will gross several $100 million more with the big names. Popoff has one of those "I know I've seen this guy before an that I liked him" faces and he capitalizes on that. There is a well substantiated law of physics: There is a steady flow of cash from fools to scoundrels. I am not bothered that such scoundrels drive Mercedes while many of those who send them money can't afford the medicines they need. More power to them. I would just hate to see the government spend my tax money trying to defrock these people. It would be as much a waste of money as the so-called war on drugs. Those who need their inspirational fix will just create a new generation of dealers.
    Maybe God takes pity on some and they are truly healed.
    Ninety to 95% of the time you go to the doctor with a complaint, the doctor really doesn't do anything for you. He examines you, takes some tests, and perhaps prescribes some innocuous medication. A few days later your symptoms are gone. What really cured you is your own immune system. This doesn't mean that the doctor is dishonest or shouldn't be paid. His true value is in knowing when the other 10% of the times occur and how to react to them. Popoff, faith healers, and religions that promote prayer (which, of course, is completely incompatible with an all knowing or a compassionate god) merely capitalize on our evolved immune systems capabilities to promote their position.
    I also disagree with the posters in this thread who believe the foolishness (by which I mean the invalidity) of Popoff's claims is relevant. If you watch him, or any of the successful megachurch televangicals, or any others of their ilk, you detect a common thread, a certain sameness, which is their persona, the production values of their show, and their "I'm your best buddy" presence. When their words enter the ear and are converted to neuronal signals in the parietal lobes, a message is sent by the emotion center to the forebrain. For some of us, that message is: "What an asshole!". For others, its: "Glory Hallalluyah! Praise the lord! I am saved!". Rock on Popoff!
    (I assign no significance to the fact that my spell checker wants to replace 'Popoff' with 'Poop'.)

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 11 by anastasia, posted 03-09-2007 3:26 PM anastasia has replied

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    anastasia
    Member (Idle past 5952 days)
    Posts: 1857
    From: Bucks County, PA
    Joined: 11-05-2006


    Message 15 of 39 (389003)
    03-09-2007 6:22 PM
    Reply to: Message 14 by AnswersInGenitals
    03-09-2007 5:21 PM


    Re: Popoff rocks!
    'Hearing the voice of God' is generally not considered a testable product. However, we know this guy is lying about that. Whether or not he is legally allowed to lie, lying's still not right.
    And I agree that everyone is selling a product, and we're all buying into one of them or the other. They are selling their acts, but they can't get away with selling their lies. If anyone else lies about their product, they get the BBB called on them, Popoff slides under the cover of religion to make his scam look 'untestable'. It's pretty evil if you think about it.

    This message is a reply to:
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