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Author Topic:   Terrorists' Main Weapon is the Media
Tal
Member (Idle past 3850 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 1 of 25 (208675)
05-16-2005 1:51 PM


I heard a General say this while during a briefing at the Embassy once. News Media is definatley the main source, but they use others mediums like the internet to release beheading videos and the like.

It has taken on a whole new meaning this week.

This story of an interigator flushing a Koran down the toilet has already led to 16 deaths.

May 12: Students toss a burning paper with a drawing of President Bush next to the words "Death to Bush!" as protesters rally in Kabul.

May 11: A car burns in the street as university students protest in the steets in Jalalabad, Afghanistan.

Now what happened from REAL reports is that a prisoner flushed a Koran down the toilet to clog it up. Michael Isikoff is directly responsible for the deaths of 16 people. But that's on him.

The point here is not that the Media is in league with anyone, they are there to sell commercials, but that the NEWS Media is their best weapon, whether the news is true or not (Al Jazeera).


Replies to this message:
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berberry
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 25 (208793)
05-16-2005 7:12 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Tal
05-16-2005 1:51 PM


Tal writes:

quote:
This story of an interigator flushing a Koran down the toilet has already led to 16 deaths.

Indeed. Kinda like the story of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq led to more than 20,000 deaths (thus far).

quote:
The point here is not that the Media is in league with anyone, they are there to sell commercials, but that the NEWS Media is their best weapon, whether the news is true or not (Al Jazeera).

Yes, the terrorists use the news media to any extent they can. Kinda like they use military forces, like that of the US, to help them in their recruiting efforts in places like Iraq.


Keep America Safe AND Free!
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Yaro
Member (Idle past 4669 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 3 of 25 (208796)
05-16-2005 7:20 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Tal
05-16-2005 1:51 PM


I have been hearing about this...

So, the media is not supposed to report anything that may be contraversial?

Worse riots have been started over much less and the media has not been blamed. Get real, those people over there hate our guts and have been protesting our pressence in their country for much longer. This current affront has only provided a convenient excuse.

Newsweek dosn't need to shut up, the media dosn't need to shut up, the government and the people need to get real about what they are doing in those countries.


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working out eating chips
Member (Idle past 1711 days)
Posts: 1623
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 4 of 25 (208802)
05-16-2005 7:48 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Tal
05-16-2005 1:51 PM


be real
America's main weapon is the media.

If you were an Iraqi you would know these protests aren't because of the media.

IT'S BECAUSE WE'RE KILLING THEM AND DESTROYING THEIR COUNTRY.


listen to phil collins and nas
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Silent H
Member (Idle past 3993 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 5 of 25 (209054)
05-17-2005 2:25 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Tal
05-16-2005 1:51 PM


Michael Isikoff is directly responsible for the deaths of 16 people. But that's on him.

Directly? I have to say his screw up is bad, and a bunch of idiots then went on to make it worse. To directly blame Isikoff is a little off as its not like he said people should go out and riot and kill people. I mean what was killing people going to do to solve the problem anyway.

But since we are on the subject of blame, what about the reports of wmd and nuclear materials which were false and yet published by the media. Or what about Bush specifically using that false information (whether he knew it or not, he and Tenet are in the same league with Isikoff) to actively encourage an action that resulted in tens of thousands of deaths and maimings?

I will note with irony that while you are criticizing Isikoff, so is Michael Moore. Why would your criticisms end with this mistake, and not go further?


holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Tal, posted 05-16-2005 1:51 PM Tal has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Tal, posted 05-18-2005 9:43 AM Silent H has responded

    
Tal
Member (Idle past 3850 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 6 of 25 (209317)
05-18-2005 9:43 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Silent H
05-17-2005 2:25 PM


Newsweek retracts Quran story
U.S. military says it must reach out to Afghans to ease tension
Monday, May 16, 2005 Posted: 11:49 PM EDT (0349 GMT)

Newsweek has now retracted its story about Quran desecration.

PLAY VIDEO

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsweek backs off a story blamed for unrest in Muslim countries.

PLAY VIDEO

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anti-American protests erupt in Afghanistan.

U.S.: No signs of Quran abuse

United States

Guantanamo Bay Naval Base (Cuba)

(CNN) -- Newsweek magazine issued a retraction Monday of a May 9 report on the alleged desecration of the Quran at the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

CNN

The report -- which said American interrogators put copies of the Quran on toilets or in one case, flushed one down a toilet -- was blamed for anti-American riots in Afghanistan and elsewhere in the Muslim world last week.

Look guys, I'm all for the media reporting the news. The problem is that some media outlets spin reports based on their agenda. cBS and Newsweek are really good examples. They are simply out to get Bush and the Military (because those stories sell commercials/magazines and they could be said to have a little bias).

Holmes

The Government and News Media are 2 different animals. The Government(s)all acted on the intelligence that everyone had, and WMD was only 1 reason for Iraq. The difference is the News Media is supposed to report news...period. Now don't get me wrong, I don't care if the Media busts Bush or the Military for screwing things up. That's what they are there for to acurately report what IS/HAS happened. Abu Graihb being the biggest example.

But after the cBS Rathergate episode you would think they (Newsweek and any other out-to-get-Bush-military) would learn something. But they haven't. I don't think the media has ever reported WHO GAVE THEM KORAN'S IN THE FIRST PLACE! We bend over backwards to make sure they can practice their religion.

I have to say his screw up is bad, and a bunch of idiots then went on to make it worse.

Right, and is it kinda silly to get so upset over a book being flushed down the toilet? Not in my eyes. I'm a christian, but you can flush the bible or do anything you want to it. Its not the book, its what is written in it and how I apply it to my life that matter to me.

Not so with Muslims. Supposedly if you desecrate the Koran its an insult to all of them. And the average Muslim in India isn't going to believe the retraction. They think the US Government is forcing them to retract it.

To sum up, we have enough of a PR problem without people making stuff up to inflame it further.

This message has been edited by Tal, 05-18-2005 09:44 AM


Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
www.1st-vets.us
This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Silent H
Member (Idle past 3993 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 7 of 25 (209322)
05-18-2005 10:24 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Tal
05-18-2005 9:43 AM


We are in agreement that the media is basically a stooge of advertising interests and hype to gain audience. Some wave the flag and produce false info to inflame American proBush interests to get their viewers, while others wave the same flag and produce false info to inflame American and International antiBush interests to get their viewers, and others still spit on the flag and produce false info to inflame International antiBush interests to get their viewers.

There are also cases of poor judgement, which I think the Rather case was. I really do not believe he'd have gone ahead with false info or that which he thought was not supported. You have still not responded to my query that despite the forgery of the specific document, those involved have expressed that it accurately conveyed the man's feelings at the time.

This latest case was a bit of poor judgement and using antiBush material to generate viewers. I think we can both agree with this.

You were the one that suggested that Isikoff is then liable for the deaths that resulted, which I find a bit of a stretch. And I am not confident in the distinction you made between gov't and media...

The Government and News Media are 2 different animals. The Government(s)all acted on the intelligence that everyone had, and WMD was only 1 reason for Iraq. The difference is the News Media is supposed to report news...period.

I can agree that they are two different animals but frankly I expect the gov't to be more informed and held more responsible for its intelligence failures. Especially given the nature of modern media, which is beholden to corporate sponsorship, I expect more bias and mistakes to come from them than the gov't.

You are also not being clear in your argument above. The US networks were not reporting the news accurately and in support of Bush policies. This is pretty much fact. They squashed material that was available outside the US which refuted US positions, as well as portraying administration claims without adequate questioning.

I cannot say the Bush administration is responsible for controlling US media, as it may have simply been US media's errant sense of patriotism and caution in the post 911 environment.

The problem is that those in the gov't should have known better. You say all gov'ts acted on the info they had and the majority were against this action.

Some, including Britain, acted to support given that the US was going to go ahead and it would be better to support the US than allow it to go alone. That is similar to why I am not supportive of current calls for pullouts and wish more nations would help Iraq. Despite Bush's foolish moves, Iraq is not better off by people abandoning it. That goes especially for those that backed the invasion initially "to make things easier".

It is a bit disingenuous to portray international opinion as to be for the Iraq War, or behind the intelligence that the US said it had. The only common ground was that Saddam has intent to try and get such things at some point, and he might have some unaccounted reserves of material (nonnuclear). MOST nations opposed invasion.

The fact that you have quoted the list of the "coalition of the willing" in the past just goes to show your own acceptance of US gov't disinformation as well as proBush media spin.

As far as there being other reasons, it is quite clear that no other reason was going to justify invasion, including to the American people. Yes there were other reasons but none of them were sufficient.

Bush then pushed a policy which was not well researched, telling us it would be easy, and the result of his actions were tens of thousands killed. If Isikoff is connected, I do not see how Bush gets off, despite their heading two different types of organizations.

Right, and is it kinda silly to get so upset over a book being flushed down the toilet? Not in my eyes. I'm a christian, but you can flush the bible or do anything you want to it. Its not the book, its what is written in it and how I apply it to my life that matter to me.

Not so with Muslims. Supposedly if you desecrate the Koran its an insult to all of them.

Wow, check yourself before you wreck yourself. First of all you can't portray all muslims as believing what you just said, just as you cannot bill yourself as the example of what all Xians will believe.

Most certainly some Xians will freak out if you stuffed a Bible down a toilet. Lesser things have been done (like putting crucifixes in urine or removing religious statues from public grounds) and people have gone berserk.

This is not to mention the fact that many Americans go nuts at the idea of people burning flags, because it supposedly insults us all. Bearing a nipple has supposedly stunted children and so now media are afraid to play Oscar winning movies as well as supporting long running popular media stars.

Ye Gods, ignorant ass Americans actually renamed french fries, and avoided buying them because France "insulted Americans" by not agreeing to an invasion (nevermind that about half of the US population was against that same invasion). These morons continued to do so despite the fact that french fries are not french and that fact was made public.

Suddenly a bunch of people getting riled up... because a false news story was errantly published of an insulting action, and in the context of other verified stories of aggression against muslim detainees... doesn't look as outrageous.

Although I still wanna know how/why these people were killed. Was it like the people that get killed at rock concerts, or like those killed at sports events, or were they actually targeted for some reason?

To sum up, we have enough of a PR problem without people making stuff up to inflame it further.

I agree, so do they. Why are you making up that all muslims are nutty and likely to go on rampages, or die during large commotions, that Americans or Xians are not?


holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)
This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Tal, posted 05-18-2005 9:43 AM Tal has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Tal, posted 05-18-2005 11:32 AM Silent H has responded

    
Tal
Member (Idle past 3850 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 8 of 25 (209347)
05-18-2005 11:32 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Silent H
05-18-2005 10:24 AM


There are also cases of poor judgement, which I think the Rather case was. I really do not believe he'd have gone ahead with false info or that which he thought was not supported. You have still not responded to my query that despite the forgery of the specific document, those involved have expressed that it accurately conveyed the man's feelings at the time

Holms...this sounds eerily close to Bush/Intel/WMD. So you'll give Rather the benefit of the doubt but not Bush? (Yes, one issue has far more reaching consequences than the other; but the principle is the same.

Bush then pushed a policy which was not well researched, telling us it would be easy, and the result of his actions were tens of thousands killed. If Isikoff is connected, I do not see how Bush gets off, despite their heading two different types of organizations.

Bush doesn't get off. He, as Commander-in-Chief, in personally responsible for the exectutive decisions he makes. Isikoff and his editors don't get off either. They need to do what they can to repair the situation.

As far as there being other reasons, it is quite clear that no other reason was going to justify invasion, including to the American people. Yes there were other reasons but none of them were sufficient

I agree here also.

Wow, check yourself before you wreck yourself. First of all you can't portray all muslims as believing what you just said, just as you cannot bill yourself as the example of what all Xians will believe.

Look around the world and what has happened. Its pretty clear.

I don't think anyone has died because the 10 Commandments were taken out of a courtroom or a nipple was popped at the Superbowl, incidently those things actually did happen.

I agree, so do they. Why are you making up that all muslims are nutty and likely to go on rampages, or die during large commotions, that Americans or Xians are not?

Give me an comparable example.


Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
www.1st-vets.us
This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member
Posts: 30997
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 9 of 25 (209352)
05-18-2005 11:48 AM


Weapons of Mass Hysteria
IMHO we need to realize that terrorism is based on WMHs and not WMDs. It is a primary goal to be able to create situations that have propaganda value.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Tal, posted 05-18-2005 1:27 PM jar has responded

  
Tal
Member (Idle past 3850 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 10 of 25 (209372)
05-18-2005 1:27 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by jar
05-18-2005 11:48 AM


Re: Weapons of Mass Hysteria
IMHO we need to realize that terrorism is based on WMHs and not WMDs. It is a primary goal to be able to create situations that have propaganda value.

Like 911?


Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
www.1st-vets.us
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 Message 9 by jar, posted 05-18-2005 11:48 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2101 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 11 of 25 (209376)
05-18-2005 1:33 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Tal
05-16-2005 1:51 PM


no. terrorists' greatest weapons are the idiots who are allegedly trying to fight them.
This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member
Posts: 30997
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 12 of 25 (209397)
05-18-2005 2:04 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Tal
05-18-2005 1:27 PM


Re: Weapons of Mass Hysteria
Sure, 911 is a great example of WMHs. It was a seriously flawed attempt that pretty much failed in all of its efforts and while a great tragedy, certainly not a threat to the US.

It's biggest success was that it provoked a response totally out of proportion to the threat. As such, it was a propaganda success beyond even their wildest hopes.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
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Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12445
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 13 of 25 (209398)
05-18-2005 2:07 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by jar
05-18-2005 2:04 PM


Re: Weapons of Mass Hysteria
I remember that right after 9-11, when there was a fear of anthrax.
My friend, who is an intelligent, atheist rocket scientist and who can explain cosmic events in a rational and logical way was convinced that anthrax COULD be on his mail! He was actually buying into the whole fear thing. Was it an international conspiratorial setup, or was it merely Homer Simpson Ashcroft and doubting dubya?
This message is a reply to:
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Tal
Member (Idle past 3850 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 14 of 25 (209404)
05-18-2005 2:32 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by jar
05-18-2005 2:04 PM


Re: Weapons of Mass Hysteria
Sure, 911 is a great example of WMHs. It was a seriously flawed attempt that pretty much failed in all of its efforts and while a great tragedy, certainly not a threat to the US.

wow


Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
www.1st-vets.us
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mick
Member (Idle past 3159 days)
Posts: 913
Joined: 02-17-2005


Message 15 of 25 (209429)
05-18-2005 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by macaroniandcheese
05-18-2005 1:33 PM


LOL, I'm with you on that one brennakimi
This message is a reply to:
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