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Author Topic:   Ramblings :: Déjà Vu
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 5 (390895)
03-22-2007 1:59 PM


Folks,
Consider the following theory regarding déj vu:
Our minds are constantly working, thinking, trying to figure things out. Part of figuring things out is making predictions. We do this all the time. The light turns red, we expect to see people stop. We turn on the light switch, we expect the light to come on. This is a simple concept: gather information, and predict future information.
Predictions and Déj Vu
Now, I propose that our minds do this subconsciously all the time, and at a level of detail far greater than what our conscious minds can grasp. Also, that our subconscious is capable, and readily predicts hundreds of different outcomes for any one event. Imagine predicting not only that the cars will stop, but which cars will come around the corner, how fast they will move, etc.
If our subconscious could predict an infinite number of possible outcomes, then we would essentially always have at least one correct prediction. Unfortunately, our minds are limited in how much they can do, and so we cannot always be sure we have a correct prediction. But, let's say we do. We are in our cars, have just made 100 predictions, and little do we know, that one of them is about to be shown as correct. The cars stop just how you predicted, the music is just like you predicted, they are the colour you just predicted, etc. This information enters your brain and into your subconscious. Your subconscious recognizes that what just flowed into it is the same as what it just created, and your mind sparks, and your subconscious communicates this information back to your conscious mind.
Thus, you consciously encounter two instances of the same event; one is what you just saw, and the other is from your subconscious. Because you are consciously aware of the fact that you cannot know anything you did not encounter, you assume that the message from your subconcsious must have been something you encountered at a different time, and you interpret it as a feeling that you are seeing something in now that you believe to have seen before. You experience déj vu.
Why don't you feel déj vu all the time? Simple, your subconscious makes only so many predictions. Because the number of ways the event can occur far surpass the number of predictions you can make, it is more likely the event will be one you have not predicted, and so your subconscious will trigger no reaction.
Problems with the Theory
A few things are shady, however. There is obviously a certain level of detail that you must have in your predictions in order to create the feeling of déj vu. What level of detail is this? Predicting simply that the cars will stop does not lead to déj vu, yet predicting the position of every molecule seems ridiculously impossible. I am of the opinion that your prediction need only be as detailed as an average memory in order to be felt as déj vu.
This is all possible. Yet, there may be one other part to all this. Perhaps, your subconscious does not send just one of its predictions to your conscious. It may be that it sends bits and pieces of each prediction so that they create a full prediction, picking and choosing which parts to send based on which parts agree with what you have actually observed. If this were the case, however, we must have two things: (1) our subconscious would have to predict events far into the future, if it predicted single events at one point in time then it would only have x, y, z to choose from, instead of x+y+z to rearrange; and (2) which is that to have #1, our subconscious would have to not only predict many things, but to a level of detail equivalent to memory, and do so on a regular enough basis that allows for the generally regular experiences of déj vu. To do this, I feel, would require the computation of far too many variables, and make the task of getting a set of predictions that when rearranged would form the actual event so difficult as to render it utterly impossible to be undertaken by the human brain.
Conclusion
For these reasons, I suspect that déj vu predicts events that might immediately follow events currently being witnessed, and predicts for an exact point of time in the future--like the pause frame of a video cassette--instead of for what might be a long string of events--like if the cassette were in play mode.
These things I reason are an adequate explanation to the phenomenon of déj vu. It explains not only how, but why, and gives explanation for the frequency of this phenomenon.
Take care,
Jon
Edited by , : --formatting--
Edited by , : --sssizzle--

In considering the Origin of Species, it is quite conceivable that a naturalist... might come to the conclusion that each species had not been independently created, but had descended, like varieties, from other species. - Charles Darwin On the Origin of Species

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Taz, posted 03-23-2007 8:33 PM Jon has replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 2 of 5 (391209)
03-23-2007 8:33 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Jon
03-22-2007 1:59 PM


There's a far simpler explanation for the feeling of deja vu. Sometimes, one side of your brain analyzes the data coming in from your eyes slower than the other. In other words, one brain sees the cat, and a millisecond later your other brain caught up and sees the cat again.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Jon, posted 03-22-2007 1:59 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Jon, posted 03-24-2007 11:43 AM Taz has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 5 (391292)
03-24-2007 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by Taz
03-23-2007 8:33 PM


Sometimes, one side of your brain analyzes the data coming in from your eyes slower than the other.
This is an interesting theory, but it has a few problems. If what we are seeing is from the same event, shouldn't we feel it as being the same event? We should also be able to pinpoint the moment in time, just as we know when an event happened yesterday, the day before, or sometime last week. The theory that our subconscious is where the "memory" arises and so is based on something that hadn't happened at the time it was formed explains why we cannot remember the exact time the event took place--it never did.
Can your theory explain this?
Max
________________________
You will notice here, that the closer the memory is to the present, the easier it is to remember it and when it happened. I would think that a memory having formed only a milisecond prior would be the easiest to remember, and would be remembered as having arisen only a milisecond prior. It would be like a of correction device for the "mistake."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Taz, posted 03-23-2007 8:33 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Taz, posted 03-24-2007 12:35 PM Jon has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 4 of 5 (391301)
03-24-2007 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Jon
03-24-2007 11:43 AM


Invictus writes:
If what we are seeing is from the same event, shouldn't we feel it as being the same event?
You didn't read my entire post there.
Let me repeat it again. Oh, and it's not a theory, it's a fact.
You actually have 2 brains, a right brain and a left brain. The data from your right eye goes to your left brain and the data from your left eye goes to your right brain. Sometimes, there's a sort of a hickup in either one of these brains, and what happens is one brain analyzes its set of data a little quicker than the other brain. So, as far as you are concern, you literally see the same event twice, giving you the feeling that you've seen the event before.
We should also be able to pinpoint the moment in time, just as we know when an event happened yesterday, the day before, or sometime last week.
No, and again you just talked right past me. You literally see the same event twice, but these two times where you see it twice are so close together that you can't consciously say to yourself "ok, this is the first time i've seen this, 1, 2, 3, ok, this is the second time i've seen this..."
Remember that during one of these deja vu, your two brains are only out of sync for a fraction of a second. Our conscious mind can only perceive time that is longer than something like half a second, so you can't consciously remember when you first saw the same event and when you saw the event again. You are left with only a feeling, the same kind of feeling that a subliminimal message leaves you with.
The theory that our subconscious is where the "memory" arises and so is based on something that hadn't happened at the time it was formed explains why we cannot remember the exact time the event took place--it never did.
Can your theory explain this?
No, my "theory" can't explain this because I have a feeling you're just going to ignore my post again and talk right past me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Jon, posted 03-24-2007 11:43 AM Jon has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by tudwell, posted 03-24-2007 1:34 PM Taz has not replied

  
tudwell
Member (Idle past 5978 days)
Posts: 172
From: KCMO
Joined: 08-20-2006


Message 5 of 5 (391315)
03-24-2007 1:34 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Taz
03-24-2007 12:35 PM


The data from your right eye goes to your left brain and the data from your left eye goes to your right brain.
Actually, that's not quite correct. The data from your right field of vision goes through both eyes to your left brain. And vice versa with your left side. But this is just a minor quibble.
You literally see the same event twice, but these two times where you see it twice are so close together that you can't consciously say to yourself "ok, this is the first time i've seen this, 1, 2, 3, ok, this is the second time i've seen this..."
I think Jon's misunderstanding comes from a misunderstanding of memory. There are many types of memory. Something that happened half a second ago has not yet been (and may never be) placed in long term memory, which is the sort of memory Jon is thinking about (more specifically, explicit long term memory). Sensory memory is a kind of memory that lasts for less than a second, and remembers what you've seen perfectly. From what I gather from your explanation of deja vu, the two sensory memories (left brain and right brain) don't quite match up.
I hope this clarified some things.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Taz, posted 03-24-2007 12:35 PM Taz has not replied

  
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