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Author Topic:   Karl Rove: Traitor?
berberry
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 271 (221417)
07-03-2005 3:06 AM


It kinda sorta looks that way. This started Friday night when MSNBC's Lawrence O'Donnell (who I thought had been fired from that network after his swift boat meltdown last year, but apparently not) said on The McLaughlin Group that Rove was the source of the Valerie Plame leak. The link above goes to Newsweek, and although they don't come right out and say it was Rove, it sure looks that way.

NewsAmericaNow and AMERICAblog have been on it since Friday night. Both are highly biased sites, but with Newsweek paying attention I don't think the mainstream media will be able to ignore it entirely.

If nothing else, one can hope that the doubt created by this will at least cause Bush's political muscle to atrophy just a bit. It couldn't happen at a better time than now.


Replies to this message:
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crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 271 (221421)
07-03-2005 8:18 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by berberry
07-03-2005 3:06 AM


Nothing "sorta" about this. Revealing the identity of a secret government agent is an act of treason. That it was done for nothing more than political retribution is astoundingly offensive.

I want Karl Rove out of the government. He makes 150,000 a year of my money to engage in this kind of filthy, corrupt behavior? I want him gone. He's unelected and obviously considers himself unaccountable.

Is there any defense for the man? I'd like to see someone try.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Silent H
Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 3 of 271 (221430)
07-03-2005 9:44 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by berberry
07-03-2005 3:06 AM


While I consider Rove "traitorous", because he holds the wellbeing of this nation and its people subservient to other entities, I am not sure if he is technically guilty of "treason."

If facts pan out then he would not only be guilty of a felony act, but it appears he would also be guilty of conspiracy to commit as well as hide that act. That is in addition to lying to a Grand Jury.

If the facts pan out and this man cannot be removed, yet Clinton was impeached for so much less important issues, then this nation is really owned lock, stock, and barrel by the Bush administration and its apologists. And it will reveal their traitorous dimension.

I can only hope that the news will go public and people give a damn about it, more than they have with other issues of perhaps even greater import. Actually if they'd give it as much attention and concern as Janet's nipple it'd be a relief to me.


holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)
This message is a reply to:
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Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6531
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003


Message 4 of 271 (221431)
07-03-2005 9:51 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by crashfrog
07-03-2005 8:18 AM


quote:
Is there any defense for the man? I'd like to see someone try.

Let me try.

Pornography causes serial killings.

Besides, Robert Byrd was a member of the KKK.


This message is a reply to:
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Silent H
Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 5 of 271 (221601)
07-04-2005 4:54 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Chiroptera
07-03-2005 9:51 AM


You forgot:

911 changed everything.

Iraq is the front line against the terrorists who attacked us.

And Karl Rove supports our troops.


holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)
This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member
Posts: 30935
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 6 of 271 (221683)
07-04-2005 1:31 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Silent H
07-03-2005 9:44 AM


Let's go back a decade or two.
Karl Rove in 1994.

Approaching election day and democratic voters start getting calls from pollsters asking questions like "Would you be more or less likely to vote for Anne Richards if you knew her administration is dominated by lesbians?"

Or 1973 and his tactics to take over the College Republican organization (where he first came under the tutelage of George Bush Sr).

The later is interesting because it revolved around the question of who leaked a document.

The underlying message though is that Karl Rove, like Newt Gingrich, is concentrated on returning power to a McKinley like era. He has used just about any tactics imaginable and has always concentrated on using peoples worst traits to his advantage.

Regardless of the outcome of the Wilson/Plame incident, Karl Rove is still a power to be reckoned with and has trained a whole cadre of people to follow his example even if he should be removed from the picture.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
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berberry
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 271 (221801)
07-04-2005 11:29 PM


This story is growing legs
Both the NY Times and LA Times ran with it today. MSNBC has moved the Newsweek piece to a more prominent place on its homepage, and now there's this from Ted Rall on Yahoo! News.

I don't want to get too excited just yet, but we might soon get to the point that even Fox News won't be able to ignore this any longer (which of course they have so far).


"I think younger workers first of all, younger workers have been promised benefits the government promises that have been promised, benefits that we can't keep. That's just the way it is." George W. Bush, May 4, 2005
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jar
Member
Posts: 30935
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 8 of 271 (221804)
07-04-2005 11:41 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by berberry
07-04-2005 11:29 PM


Re: This story is growing legs
Wasn't there a Bush who held some position in the CIA?


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
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cmanteuf
Member (Idle past 4874 days)
Posts: 92
From: Virginia, USA
Joined: 11-08-2004


Message 9 of 271 (221812)
07-05-2005 1:00 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by jar
07-04-2005 11:41 PM


Re: This story is growing legs
Jar writes:

Wasn't there a Bush who held some position in the CIA?

Assuming you are not being sarcastic, George Herbert Walker Bush was the Director of Central Intelligence (the head of the CIA) from November 1975 to the end of Ford's term (Jan 1977). He was the first "outsider" to become DCI.

The CIA headquarters in Langley, VA is named for him; the George Herbert Walker Bush Center for Intelligence. I pass by it somewhat regularly and the sign never ceases to make me smile.

Chris


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jar
Member
Posts: 30935
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 10 of 271 (221815)
07-05-2005 1:17 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by cmanteuf
07-05-2005 1:00 AM


Re: This story is growing legs
And if I understand this mess, it's about someone from a Bush Administration outing a CIA agent because her husband published an article that questioned the Bush Administration's use of Intellegence data?


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
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 Message 15 by Tal, posted 07-06-2005 11:06 AM jar has responded

  
Tal
Member (Idle past 3785 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 11 of 271 (222130)
07-06-2005 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by jar
07-05-2005 1:17 AM


Re: This story is growing legs
Just to satisfy my curiosity, what do you guys/gals think of Deepthroat?

Traitor or Hero?


"Some say freedom is free...but I beg to disagree. Some say freedom is won, through the barrel of a gun..."
-Army Cadence

"A good plan executed today is better than a perfect plan executed at some indefinite point in the future."
- General George Patton Jr

www.1st-vets.us


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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 Message 36 by RAZD, posted 07-11-2005 8:25 PM Tal has responded

    
berberry
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 271 (222131)
07-06-2005 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Tal
07-06-2005 10:53 AM


Re: This story is growing legs
Tal asks:

quote:
Just to satisfy my curiosity, what do you guys/gals think of Deepthroat?

Traitor or Hero?


Hero. Felt never outed a CIA operative. He exposed criminal activity among the highest officials of the government. Rove (if he is indeed guilty as charged) outed a CIA agent, most likely as an act of revenge against her husband. At worst, he might have outed her to prevent her digging too deeply into the question of whether Iraq possessed WMD, which of course we now know Iraq did not.


"I think younger workers first of all, younger workers have been promised benefits the government promises that have been promised, benefits that we can't keep. That's just the way it is." George W. Bush, May 4, 2005
This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Tal, posted 07-06-2005 10:53 AM Tal has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30935
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 13 of 271 (222132)
07-06-2005 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Tal
07-06-2005 10:53 AM


Re: This story is growing legs
Since you responded to me, I'd say hero. It's a shame there wasn't a 'DeepThroat' that spoke up early enough to get Reagan impeached.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Tal
Member (Idle past 3785 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 14 of 271 (222133)
07-06-2005 11:02 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by jar
07-06-2005 11:00 AM


Re: This story is growing legs
Interesting. You both do realize that what he did was illegal and that he had a proper recourse he could have taken?


"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake."

"A good plan executed today is better than a perfect plan executed at some indefinite point in the future."
- General George Patton Jr

www.1st-vets.us


This message is a reply to:
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Tal
Member (Idle past 3785 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 15 of 271 (222134)
07-06-2005 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by jar
07-05-2005 1:17 AM


Re: This story is growing legs
And for a real reply to Jar...

No from what I got out of it, someone on the inside was disclosing the identity on an undercover agent to a reporter and the reporter was refusing to reveal the person who was giving this information


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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