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Author Topic:   Grammar
mike the wiz
Member (Idle past 249 days)
Posts: 4718
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 1 of 105 (46750)
07-21-2003 6:15 PM


So far I have not been too pleased with the evolutionists stance. There are a few reasonable arguments from Crash and Schrafinator I've enjoyed. But I guess i'm a little shocked because I thought the 'intelligents' would wipe the floor with me, but in my experience the creationist arguments are better even.

I have been listening to John Mackay's (geologist) and his evidence is very good, the fossils are a problem for me, as he explained there are a huge amount of fossils that look exactly the same as animals today, frogs, starfish, sharks, he has found many fossils that have missed the 'evolutionary boat' is this a major problem? I think it is but I'm no expert, whats your view?

Has my grammar improved?

[This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 07-21-2003]

[This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 07-21-2003]


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by PaulK, posted 07-21-2003 6:28 PM mike the wiz has replied
 Message 3 by NosyNed, posted 07-21-2003 6:32 PM mike the wiz has replied
 Message 16 by mark24, posted 07-21-2003 7:51 PM mike the wiz has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17167
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 2 of 105 (46752)
07-21-2003 6:28 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by mike the wiz
07-21-2003 6:15 PM


Perhaps you're just not recognising how bad the creationist arguments are ? They are plausible people, but on investigation a lot of what they say disintegrates.

No, the fact that a few groups show relatively little change is not a great problem. While sharks as a groups have been around for a long time, the species still change. But why should sharks change beyond recognition ? Despite being descended from four-legged land breathers icthyosaurs and dolphins still have evolved to a shark-like form. So why shouldn't sharks stay much the same ? They "haven't missed the boat" in any way - they've done very well.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by mike the wiz, posted 07-21-2003 6:15 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by mike the wiz, posted 07-21-2003 6:32 PM PaulK has replied

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8968
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 3 of 105 (46753)
07-21-2003 6:32 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by mike the wiz
07-21-2003 6:15 PM


a huge amount of fossils that look exactly the same as animals today, frogs

Perhaps this should be handled by an expert. But I think you have your facts a bit off. "exactly the same" implies the same species. I don't think you will be able to site a single case of a species lasting more than a few million years.

Addtionally, why would this be a problem. If the niche continues to exist and doesn't change to drastically the creatures in it may be subjected to selective pressure to stay about the same, not to change.

On your other point Mike, is there any specific point that you think you have come close to holding your own not to talk of winning a point?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by mike the wiz, posted 07-21-2003 6:15 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by mike the wiz, posted 07-21-2003 6:33 PM NosyNed has taken no action
 Message 6 by mike the wiz, posted 07-21-2003 6:39 PM NosyNed has taken no action
 Message 90 by joshua221, posted 08-10-2003 8:56 PM NosyNed has taken no action

  
mike the wiz
Member (Idle past 249 days)
Posts: 4718
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 4 of 105 (46754)
07-21-2003 6:32 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by PaulK
07-21-2003 6:28 PM


'They "haven't missed the boat" in any way - they've done very well.'

I see were your coming from , I've seen Jaws aswell. lol

'the species still change.'

Is their evidence to show these changes in fossils. I'm honestly interested in this one I'm not out for a fight , I want to learn!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by PaulK, posted 07-21-2003 6:28 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by PaulK, posted 07-21-2003 7:04 PM mike the wiz has replied

  
mike the wiz
Member (Idle past 249 days)
Posts: 4718
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 5 of 105 (46755)
07-21-2003 6:33 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by NosyNed
07-21-2003 6:32 PM


' I don't think you will be able to site a single case of a species lasting more than a few million years.'

I don't believe in millions of years.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by NosyNed, posted 07-21-2003 6:32 PM NosyNed has taken no action

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Brian, posted 07-21-2003 6:55 PM mike the wiz has replied

  
mike the wiz
Member (Idle past 249 days)
Posts: 4718
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 6 of 105 (46757)
07-21-2003 6:39 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by NosyNed
07-21-2003 6:32 PM


'On your other point Mike, is there any specific point that you think you have come close to holding your own not to talk of winning a point?'

I think I held my own quite well on the 'dove on the ark' topic, certainly I done okay just by reading genesis I defended quite well, as for evolution I just don't get satisfying answers, even when I show genuine interest. I don't believe in evolution but it does interest me.


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mike the wiz
Member (Idle past 249 days)
Posts: 4718
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 7 of 105 (46758)
07-21-2003 6:50 PM


Hello, where have you gone everybody? lol.
I need an answer, I seek to learn, do fossils show adaptation, say an animal that looks different now from a fossilised one?

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4189 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 8 of 105 (46760)
07-21-2003 6:55 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by mike the wiz
07-21-2003 6:33 PM


Hi Mike

I don't believe in millions of years.

You don't?

What do you believe in then, how old would you say the earth is and what do you base your conclusions on?

Brian.

[This message has been edited by Brian Johnston, 07-21-2003]


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by mike the wiz, posted 07-21-2003 6:33 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by mike the wiz, posted 07-21-2003 7:02 PM Brian has replied

  
mike the wiz
Member (Idle past 249 days)
Posts: 4718
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 9 of 105 (46762)
07-21-2003 7:02 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Brian
07-21-2003 6:55 PM


'What do you believe in then, how old would you say the earth is and what do you base your conclusions on?'

I think you know the answer to this one, besides your not the person I'm looking for to discuss this Brian as you end up ridiculing my beliefs and it bores me. 'hans christian anderson' for example.I 've finished with you because of your statements. No offence but you go too far.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Brian, posted 07-21-2003 6:55 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Brian, posted 07-21-2003 7:05 PM mike the wiz has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17167
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 10 of 105 (46763)
07-21-2003 7:04 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by mike the wiz
07-21-2003 6:32 PM


You may have seen Jaws but there were even more fearsome sharks in the distant past (whale sharks are bigger than Great Whites, but much less aggressive) http://www.sharksteeth.com/Megalodon.htm

This page has a collection of fossil sharks teeth for sale. Note how the older species are generally extinct.

http://www.megalodonteeth.com/html/misccat.html

If you want something more detailed, here is a key to identifying fossil shark teeth http://www.nmnh.si.edu/paleo/sharkteeth/


This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by mike the wiz, posted 07-21-2003 6:32 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by mike the wiz, posted 07-21-2003 7:08 PM PaulK has taken no action

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4189 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 11 of 105 (46764)
07-21-2003 7:05 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by mike the wiz
07-21-2003 7:02 PM


Fair enuff!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by mike the wiz, posted 07-21-2003 7:02 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by mike the wiz, posted 07-21-2003 7:10 PM Brian has replied

  
mike the wiz
Member (Idle past 249 days)
Posts: 4718
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 12 of 105 (46766)
07-21-2003 7:08 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by PaulK
07-21-2003 7:04 PM


Great site Paul thanks, as for that picture of the guy in the sharks mouth, I'll be having nightmares for weeks.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by PaulK, posted 07-21-2003 7:04 PM PaulK has taken no action

  
mike the wiz
Member (Idle past 249 days)
Posts: 4718
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 13 of 105 (46767)
07-21-2003 7:10 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Brian
07-21-2003 7:05 PM


O.K. Brian I take it back, I havent finished with you , that was a little harsh, it's just that I dont want a big debate in this topic.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Brian, posted 07-21-2003 7:05 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Brian, posted 07-21-2003 7:13 PM mike the wiz has replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4189 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 14 of 105 (46768)
07-21-2003 7:13 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by mike the wiz
07-21-2003 7:10 PM


It's cool Mike, not a problem at all.

Don't worry about it I don't go in huffs lol

Best Wishes.

Brian


This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by mike the wiz, posted 07-21-2003 7:10 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by mike the wiz, posted 07-21-2003 7:18 PM Brian has taken no action

  
mike the wiz
Member (Idle past 249 days)
Posts: 4718
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 15 of 105 (46770)
07-21-2003 7:18 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Brian
07-21-2003 7:13 PM


O.k. Brian, thanks I dont bare grudges either thats why we made up so quick . lol. Just so you know I take it back,the answer to your question - I believe in 6000 years. Some people would call me a 'yec' I suppose.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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