The bible and abortion

Many anti-abortionists base their stance on their opinion that God is anti-abortion. However, while I can't find anything in the Bible that would give them that opinion, I can point to this:Exodus 21:12: "Anyone who hits a person hard enough to cause death must be put to death."and...Numbers 35:21: "Or if someone angrily hits another person with a fist and the person dies, it is murder. In such cases, the victim's nearest relative must execute the murderer when they meet."but...Exodus 21:22: "Now suppose two people are fighting, and in the process, they hurt a pregnant woman so her child is born prematurely. If no further harm results, then the person responsible must pay damages in the amount the woman's husband demands and the judges approve."In short, the penalty for murder is death, but the penalty for *involuntary abortion* is only a fine. There's absolutely nothing stated about deliberately "casting out a child", as the practice of abortion was known at the time.Any Christian perspective on this?------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

Isn't there a section in Leviticus about the state's right to colonize a woman's uterus?I think it was near all that stuff about how you're supposed to beat a gay guy with hammers to show God's love.

From what I heard it has only to do with a passage (and I don't remember where exactly), that God knew someone while they were in the womb.From that it was extrapolated that if God knew a person in the womb, the person must have been a person in the womb.Since killing a person is murder, killing a person in a womb is murder.But this is simply what I heard from some anti-abortion protesters and they are crazy. Who can believe anything they say, including why they are demonstrating?------------------
holmes

I never understood how people could take comments written by old Jewish men and state emphatically that it means that god is against abortion. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Jews believe life began literally at first breath? If I did remember this correctly, then even the guys writing the bible didn't believe that anything they wrote was anti-abortion.As for the NT, for a practice that was as common as it was in ancient times, Jesus sure is silent about it.------------------
Asgara
"An unexamined life is not worth living" Socrates via Plato

That's very true, no mention of the Roman practice of "exposure" (abandoning a newborn to die in the wilderness) either. You'd think with everything else they get blasted for, if that was bad it would be mentioned.And look at the OT. It certainly mentions parents killing their kids, trying to kill their kids, or being instructed to kill their kids (sometimes just for disobedience). Yet no mention that any of this was bad and in this case the kid is out and walking around.------------------
holmes

quote:

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Since killing a person is murder, killing a person in a womb is murder.

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Correct.

quote:

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But this is simply what I heard from some anti-abortion protesters and they are crazy. Who can believe anything they say, including why they are demonstrating?

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Oh so now killing a human being that is inside a womb is justified because the people who preach about abortion are crazy? I hope this post I am replying to is a joke because what I just read is so sad it makes me want to cry.

I notice that it doesn't say when god knew you in the womb, only that he did. So it may very well be that god doesn't know you in the womb until you consist of more than a few cells. Or maybe he doesn't know you until the start of the third trimester.Also, for Messenjah - since you apparently think that a person could consist of a few cells, what would you think if I took a couple of cells - from your blood, say, or the inside of your mouth - and killed the rest of you (by cremation, let's say?) Would you consider that murder? If so, why? If a few cells is enough for an embryo to be fully human, why isn't it enough for you? Sounds like a double standard to me.

Messenjah,What is your justification that a fetus in the womb is a human being? The bible doesn't say so. The vast majority of abortions performed in this country are done before the brain is even connected in any meaningful way. The writers of the bible didn't even consider a fetus to be human until first breath.I have heard many Christians claim that all sins are equal in the eyes of god. But I never hear them crying about someone swearing or dishonoring their mother or father. Somehow this knee-jerk reaction is only to their perception of murder of an unborn being.You do know, don't you that even pro-choice advocates hate abortion. Everyone would be happier if abortions didn't happen. But as long as unwanted or unhealthy pregnancies occur, the mother is the only one who can make the decision to carry that fetus to term or not.------------------
Asgara
"An unexamined life is not worth living" Socrates via Plato

Why are you burning me for something I didn't even write?

I'm not attempting to burn you Messenjah. I am merely questioning you on your post. You did post that "correct" it is murder...and that Holmes' post made you want to cry. I am just wondering what your reasoning was for this.------------------
Asgara
"An unexamined life is not worth living" Socrates via Plato

I agree that abortion should be lagal, what I don't agree with is the promotion of a casual attitude tword it. Now, I know it's a hard desison for most people, but in my own personal experience, some folks treat it like another form of birth control.Oops, got pregnant again, oh well guess I'll get that abortion.The fact is, we truely don't know when to say the baby in the womb is an individual, and this idea, as well as the potential moral implications should indeed allways be impressed upon anyone considering an abortion.Just as if you were deciding to pull the plug on a comatose relative, the reality that you are killing something or someone showld allways be plainly visible on the table.Frankly, I am thankfull for the contraversy surounding the issue, because I would hate for Abortion to be handwaved away as just another simple option a person can use to convinience themselves.Again, I must stress, I don't think most people think this way. But belive me I have met some, and it was horrifying. That is why I think the issue allways should have moral weight atached to it.

He says murdering someone is alright because a "crazy" person said it isn't.Kind of simple, really.

Who, exactly?I mean, we're talking about an uncomfortable, stigmatized surgical procedure with very real risks. Who goes in for one every other month, or whatever? It can't possibly be pleasant to go through.Maybe you're right and some people do, but I guess I find that a little unbelievable. Well, I know, or have a suspicion, anyway - no baby in a womb is an individual. You don't develop individual conciousness until exposure to language, which happens after birth. (I'd say that this view is largely supported by the phenomenon of "feral children", but obviously, it's by no means confirmed.)

Hi Yaro,I too, have known women who use abortion as a wicked form of birth control...a few, multiple times.I do believe that for the vast majority of women, the moral implications are always uppermost in their minds.My biggest problem with the whole issue though, is sanctimonious people who have no idea what the woman was going through when she made the decision. People who have no problem calling the woman a murderer and telling her that she will go to hell. People who are totally unwilling to even listen to any explanations or reasons. People who hide behind this facade of Christianity but are unable to justify their position with the verses they are using.edited to add: I am sorry if I come off strident. This issue hits close to home and sometimes I am unaware if I am coming off as harsh. Please let me know if I push it.------------------
Asgara
"An unexamined life is not worth living" Socrates via Plato[This message has been edited by Asgara, 09-22-2003]

I'm with you there crash. I caouldn't belive it myslef. I met this particular girl way back in high school, and her attitude tword the whole thing has stuck with me ever since. She had 3 abortions in total, an it was cool with her.As for your other point...Individual consiousness or not, you are still takeing into your hands a living human being. Just like a loved one in a coma, this is a person, with a life, who you have to make a very weighty descision about.I never wan't this idea to be lost.