ignorance of creationism

there has been a recent event in my life that has lead me to think most people who believe in creationism...lack...a certain amount of intelligence or processing i guess.the event was a Christmas party at my aunts house. just a small family get together.And i get to talking with one of my aunts about creationism/evolutionism. well one thing lead to another and the whole room of people was involved. i was the only one on the evolutionary side everyone else believed in creationism. all vs me (already a biased argument in it self. worlds most unfair arguments hah....) any way. they started asking me questions like i was the bad guy and if i believed anything about evolution i was going to hell. they kept asking stuff like "we were never apes" "god created us in his own image are you saying god is covered with hair?!?"(i responded to that one "how do you know you have never seen him"). i also went on about Noah's ark and the physical impossibilities of all the animals fitting on the ark let alone him finding all of those animals. and the possibility of a world wide flood that covered every piece of land is completely unthinkable with the amount of water that is on this planet. i even raised the proposition of that it could have seamed like the whole world flooded because they did not know about the rest of the world. their answer to that was "god knew"... and after about a half an hour or so one of my relatives.and they kept trying to put words into my mouth constantly. like since i don't believe in creationism and that the world wasn't created 6000 years ago that i don't believe in a god. i kept having to say i didn't say that now did i. i forgot the rest of the day...i only had like 4 hours of sleep and this was late in the evening and i was dead tired...im not questioning the intelligence of people who believe in creationism. heck one of my friends has a 4.0 gpa and he believes in creationism, but its the stubbornness of creationists that irritates me. since evolutionism is science, results can be change to fit a better explanation to what is happening. creationism isn't science its a religious statement no matter how you look at it. it states that it knows the end result but there is no...evidence...i guess might be the word. so in a mathematical aspect evolutionism has an equation but no solid answer and creationism has an answer but no solid equation. and the only real explanation for any thought of creationism is from a religious aspect.im not person that has really researched both sides so i cant come out saying either evolutionism or creationism is right or wrong, but whenever i try to sit down and read the bible it always feels like it belittles a godly figure. genesis just bugs the hell out of me. you know for being such a complex being creating something and just saying "it was good" if the bible was actually written to explain anything about creating something other than just a little fairytale going oh he made earth and heaven it was good, he said "let there be light" it was good, etc really pisses me off because Christianity always states that god is awesome yet it constantly belittles it with simplistic explanations. to be honest it sounds like the bible was written for a child to read. and if god was so awesome he should have realized back then that most of the information in the bible would be controversial. why would a god make something that could be proven wrong/inaccurate. for being all knowing most stuff in the bible seams it was just written by different men during that time making stuff up or elaborating the truth to make it seam magical.i'm sorry if i came off pissed off but that whole event on Christmas has changed my opinion about how Christians look at other peoples beliefs and say they are wrong before even taking in one bit of information about the other side of the argument.final word: no matter what can be proven/unproven opinions of people will never be changed. even if it were proven that no part of the bible was true or that science has been completely wrong about evolution. nothing will ever change. in my opinion there is a 50/50 chance that god exists. i also don't believe if god did exist that he would be so black and white about heaven and hell. if a Christian that killed 5 people in his life and repented for his sins right before he died goes to heaven and an atheist that was a doctor who helped saved thousands of lives goes to hell seams so very very wrong.sorry if my thoughts seam scattered(they are) I'm just venting my thoughts to get them out of my head it was driving me insane.thanks for reading
hopefully my next posts wont be so scattered.

Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.***********************************************************
Do Me A Favor and edit your post a bit. I promoted it because it was interesting, but try and make it more readable for the peanut gallery! Welcome to EvC, by the way! Edited by AdminPhat, : editEdited by AdminPhat, : spellingEdited by AdminPhat, : No reason given.

Only some Christians thank GOD. Please read this open letter currently signed by over 11,000 US Christian Clergy.

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Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!

I would wonder how many of the communicants of the 10000 clergymen agree with their clergy.

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There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other

I absolutely agree. While most creationists I've met are pretty much the dumbass type, I've met some very smart creationists, a lot of them smarter than me.In high school I graduated with a 6.0 out of a 6.0 (I know, weird system) and I was a hardcore creationist. It took some real experiences in college to make me realize that magic just isn't the answer to everything.

Quite a few. I went to a Christian School for most of my education and Evolution was certainly accepted and taught. But as with any issue, much will depend on education.

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Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!

Hi DJBigz,
Welcome to EvC. I have been in very similar situations, I come from a YEC family as well. When in my second year of my PhD program my brother asked me if I had 'gone through the ritual yet'. When I asked he said I would find out soon enough. When pressed he told me that very soon I would be asked to participate in a ritual where I would be forced to reject Christ before I would be allowed to get a PhD. He knew this because 'someone he knew knows this guy' who almost became a scientist but wouldn't reject Jesus and was kicked out.The question of how to talk to creationists is very important to me. Over the last few months I have been doing a series of "Evolution Science Seminars" to counter each creation version we get here in Sitka. The seminars are proving to be quite successful, but unfortunately the majority that attend are already in support of evolution and science.One way I have had some success when talking to creationists (works well with friends and relatives as it takes small doses over time). I first start by having the participant explain what they think evolution is about, then gently correcting as we go along. The goal of this is not to change their minds but to set the stage for them to realize (they need to figure it out) they are opposed to something they know absolutely nothing about and that they have been lied to by their sources. Bringing up examples of Christians (like jar's Clergy Letter Project) who also see no conflict between their faith and science is extremely important. I have found that nearly every single YE creationist I know personally cannot explain even the rudiments of evolutionary processes. The ratio is slightly better here at EvC.Here is an analogy to what many if not most YEC's have for an argument:Me: I think that Spiderman is better than Superman
ComicBookGuy: Why do you think that?
Me: Because Spiderman has spider powers, and Superman just has a utility belt and a batmobileYEC: I think that creationism is better than evolutionism
Me: Why do you think that?
YEC: Because evolution says that all of the planets have to spin the same way but some do notAnyhow, again welcome. This is a great place to learn about a huge number of subjects.Edited by Lithodid-Man, : Wrote 'would' instead of 'wouldn't' in first sentence!

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Doctor Bashir: "Of all the stories you told me, which were true and which weren't?"
Elim Garak: "My dear Doctor, they're all true"
Doctor Bashir: "Even the lies?"
Elim Garak: "Especially the lies"

This should have you questioning the effectiveness of your local education system, as it seems that currently people can ace their way through and not have to learn a damn thing. Malarkey. It is not your job to refute every childish fairy tale they throw your way. Next time you need to tell them that it is their job to support their assertions. Remember, the burden of proof lies with the prosecution. Yep. What does this have to do with Creationism? Malarkey. I used to be a Christian Fundamentalist.

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Beware the Jabberwock, my son!

thanks for the replies. What does this have to do with Creationism?that was just an idea i have floating around in my head it really didn't have to do with creationism but more of the question that most Christians ask me. "so you don't believe in god?" and i believe its more of a chance than an actual 100% belief that something so extreme exists or not.Malarkey. I used to be a Christian Fundamentalist.i should have cleared that up a little bit. its not like your going to walk into a church and prove everyone that what they believe in is wrong and hope for people to change their beliefs. of course on an individual level its much easier to "convert" someone. thats how the church tried doing it to me when i was a kid. i went to a Sunday school at this church/daycare center. and one of the guys who worked there just pulled me to the side of the classroom and made me recite a prayer. of course it didn't work on me because i wouldn't be here talking like this right now if it did, but thats how that church tried to pull in kids.Me: I think that Spiderman is better than Superman
ComicBookGuy: Why do you think that?
Me: Because Spiderman has spider powers, and Superman just has a utility belt and a batmobileYEC: I think that creationism is better than evolutionism
Me: Why do you think that?
YEC: Because evolution says that all of the planets have to spin the same way but some do nothah i like thati just thought of another thing that really upsets me. even though i love my grandma she is just persistent that i stay Christian. she keeps throwing "you promised to go to heaven with me when you were little", and stuff like that at me. i don't want to hurt her because i'm like the only person she really has left. her husband isn't that great. my dads brother still lives with them because he has a bunch of mental disabilities and hes probably been on every drug known to man. she also keeps asking me to go to church with my mom every time she talks to me. if i come out saying I'm not a Christian to her it will crush her. its the same situation with my mother.now my mother goes to church more often then goes out and doing things with friends and family...in fact shes at church right now...And im afraid if i tell her that she would boot me out of the house/disown me or something. this is where it gets fun. shes already argued with my brother about being a Christian and he made reasonable sense like why should i believe something that you say is helping me and healing me when its not. my brother does believe in a god but he doesn't believe in jesus. from what i herd from the argument at least. my dad...well he works and sleeps rinse and repeat. so my mom is trying desperately to get me to go. now most people just tell me to tell her and just accept what she says and if she does boot me out to just go live with a friend, but i don't want to go down that road. funny enough something like that is already happening with my brothers girl friend...shes living here...to be honest i have no idea what to do. other than this nagging its a relatively comfortable place to live, but i'm mentally suppressed in this house. most people make fun of me saying "waa waa i have a home and a loving family" crap like that, that really pisses me off because they don't understand my situation.i know all im saying is kinda off topic, but its all a vicious circle. like i just made a new friend and hes a tarot card reader and a spiritual counselor, and he knows that i don't believe in that stuff but i let him express it when I'm around him because i don't want him to feel awkward and he really isn't making any statements that don't offend me like creationism etc. so i tell my mom about him and the first words that come out of her moth are "thats the work of the devil"...because she instantly thought of Salem witch and judged him before even meeting him...where in the bible has a list of all these things that are "the work of the devil" because i would really like to see where they are pulling this stuff out of their ass from.sorry again if i went off topic a little but its just stuff thats in my head that i needed to let out.btw how do you quote i tried the whole

quote:

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and but those didn't workthanks for reading

Either[quote]text to be quoted[/quote]or[qs]text to be quoted[/qs]I used the second of those forms in quoting you above.

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Let's end the political smears

thanks

But you don't have to give up Christianity if that is your desire. Remember, all Evolution teaches us is "How God Did It."Is there some reason we should tell God that God cannot use a process like Evolution?

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Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!

well i'm not saying i don't believe in god I'm saying i don't believe in the bible. theres no way i can say that a god exists or not its impossible. thats why i don't like people who believe without a doubt god exists/doesn't exist. and thats what gets people who are extremists really pissed off at me because i will not make that choice because it isn't mine to make.Edited by DJBigz, : No reason given.

Hi DJBigz!Jar is right. You don't have to quit being a xian, just think of the bible as a morality tale rather than a text book and you will be fine.Not every one can cope with abstract ideas (they take effort, after all) and sometimes 'goddidit!' is good enough to live a happy life.Don't dump you faith if you don't want to: but do dump Young Earth Creationism.

Well, I wouldn't worry too much about all that. If GOD exists then She is not the Muslim or Hebrew or Christian God, not Siva or Brahma or Ganesh or Vishnu, but as it says in the Bible "I am that I am."Religions, including Christianity are just social constructs, things we invent to try to help us understand that which is beyond all.If it makes your Grandmother happy, then walk along with her. All too soon it will be impossible.

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Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!