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Author Topic:   An Inconvenient Truth
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19819
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 1 of 119 (341435)
08-19-2006 4:29 PM


My (I'm so proud) son sent me these links:

http://www.climatecrisis.net/
"(the take action page is most use full)"
http://www.stopglobalwarming.org/default.asp
http://www.votesolar.org/

http://www.climatecrisis.net/aboutthebook/

Al Gore’s groundbreaking book, An Inconvenient Truth, brings together leading-edge research from top scientists around the world, as well as photographs, charts, and other illustrations to document the reality of global warming--and to sound a warning bell for action before it’s too late. Filled with personal anecdotes and observations about how this issue has become a central focus in Mr. Gore’s life--and why he believes it is the crucial issue of our time--AN INCONVENIENT TRUTH argues that global warming is not just about science, nor is it just a political issue: it is a moral issue and we have a responsibility to do something about it. Destined to become a classic, this accessible, entertaining, and thorough book is a unique reference for anyone who wants more information about global warming as well a guidebook for those who want to join the fight.

Available wherever books are sold and on Amazon.com

I've said for some time that it is irrelevant whether or not man caused or just increased global warming, as the pertinent questions are (1) what will it be like? (2) will we like it? and (3) if not, is there anything we can do about it?

Anyone seen the movie yet?

Enjoy

(book nook methinkth, but maybe coffeehouse if there is a lot of discussion)

Edited by RAZD, : added word


Join the effort to unravel {AIDS/HIV} {Protenes} and {Cancer} with Team EvC! (click)

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand

RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by crashfrog, posted 08-19-2006 7:09 PM RAZD has responded
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AdminJar
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 119 (341481)
08-19-2006 6:58 PM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.
  
crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 119 (341485)
08-19-2006 7:09 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by RAZD
08-19-2006 4:29 PM


Anyone seen the movie yet?

I saw it. I quite enjoyed it. He's an excellent speaker, his material is quite engaging, and I found it very educational.

Certainly it disabused me of the notion that there's any controversy whatsoever that the climate warming is anthropogenic. The evidence is simply unimpeachable. There's never been CO2 levels, in 600,000 years, anywhere near as high as they have been in the last two centuries of human industrial activity.

I ask anyone who disagrees to put forth a scientific paper that has been published in a relevant article that lays a contrary case, or specifies an alternative mechanism for all that anomalous CO2.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by RAZD, posted 08-19-2006 4:29 PM RAZD has responded

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RAZD
Member
Posts: 19819
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 4 of 119 (341523)
08-19-2006 9:15 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by crashfrog
08-19-2006 7:09 PM


is holmes lurking out there?
I ask anyone who disagrees to put forth a scientific paper that has been published in a relevant article that lays a contrary case, or specifies an alternative mechanism for all that anomalous CO2.

Perhaps this will pull holmes out of lurking mode -- he's had comments on this before

I searched but could only find the Global warming - fact or conspiracy? and he's not on that one (nice graphs on the last post there btw).

{abe}
Ah it was in regard to storms being bigger and more violent (& whether it was a result of global warming) Message 31
{/abe}

Enjoy.

Edited by RAZD, : added {}


Join the effort to unravel {AIDS/HIV} {Protenes} and {Cancer} with Team EvC! (click)

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand

RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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Discreet Label
Member (Idle past 3174 days)
Posts: 272
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 5 of 119 (341540)
08-19-2006 9:46 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by RAZD
08-19-2006 9:15 PM


Re: is holmes lurking out there?
I saw Inconvienant Truth several weeks ago. Its amazing how much as a speaker Gore has improved since the presidentail campaign.

Probably one of the most compelling things that he brought forward was the comparisons of the glaciars older photos to current photos.

That one was a minor story compared to how i remember in 4th grade looking at the geographical map in my social studies book. I always liked looking at Africa because it had a really large set of rivers and a huge lake. Lake Chad, which coincidentally...um doesn't seem to be much of a lake anymore. Which when searching online i found a NASA source...but all their links seem to be broken

But the USGS had some nice satellite phots of it.


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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5622
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006


Message 6 of 119 (341593)
08-19-2006 11:02 PM


Global Warming
What if the apparent Warming effect so happened to be a natural cycle of the earth. I mean, we know empirically that the North Pole was once a lush, rainforest. What if all this fuss is humans worrying themselves to death? To be fair, yes, pollution is a problem. However, the rates of pollution today are far less than that of Industrial Revolution England and far less that 1980 Los Angelas. You might say, "Ya, but it all accumulates over time, depleting the ozone." But what if this is just another senseless scare tactic?

It seems that the Discovery Channel, for instance, is obsessed with death, disaster, and catastrophe. The major networks are no better. There are alot of specials being aired on Tsunamies, hurricanes, earthquakes, Avian Flu's, SARS, AIDS, over population, Global Warming, etc. It almost seems like they are masochistically rooting for such a disaster. Secondly, all of these phenomena have always been around. We have a better handle on tsunamies, hurricanes, earthquakes, famines, plagues, etc than ever before. We have learned to mitigate much of those things as much as we could. Certainly, we could attribute this to awareness.

I have not seen the movie and it may be a very persuasive movie. I'm not going to prejudge it. But what should happen if we are just going through a natural cycle and that very few of the problems have to do with anything?


“It is in vain, O' man, that you seek within yourselves the cure for all your miseries. All your insight has led you to the knowledge that it is not in yourselves that you will discover the true and the good.” -Blaise Pascal
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anglagard
Member
Posts: 2185
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 7 of 119 (341601)
08-19-2006 11:15 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Hyroglyphx
08-19-2006 11:02 PM


Re: Global Warming
However, the rates of pollution today are far less than that of Industrial Revolution England and far less that 1980 Los Angelas.

You actually believe that the worldwide (meaning both the parts that speak English and those that don't) rate of CO2 production (that is carbon dioxide, not ozone) is decreasing?

Ever heard of China, India, or Mexico? How do you think these populous industrializing nations are making electricity? {hint - it's mainly not wind, solar, hydro, or nuclear}

ABE - also don't forget increased auto use in these industrializing nations as well.

Edited by anglagard, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-19-2006 11:02 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
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Cthulhu
Member (Idle past 3963 days)
Posts: 273
From: Roe Dyelin
Joined: 09-09-2003


Message 8 of 119 (341606)
08-19-2006 11:25 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Hyroglyphx
08-19-2006 11:02 PM


Re: Global Warming
I mean, we know empirically that the North Pole was once a lush, rainforest.

That's quite a feat, considering that at no point in the history of life of Earth has there been land at the North Pole.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-19-2006 11:02 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
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kuresu
Member (Idle past 624 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 9 of 119 (341607)
08-19-2006 11:37 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Hyroglyphx
08-19-2006 11:02 PM


Re: Global Warming
you're right. the global warming thing, it's all just a scare tactic. One designed to get us off of our asses and to do something about it. It looks like the ozone is finally beginning to rebuild (the destruction of which was completely man made). but global warming. let's see, during the age of the dinos, it was all a lot hotter--oceans were a scorching 100 degrees farenhieght. Also, sea levels were a lot higher.

thing is, the earth is in a cooling stage. we are just now getting out of the last ice age. and something tells me that those 15 million people in new york don't want to live underwater. so yeah, the warming's happened before. but not like this. not with man adding to what the volcanos do. we push it out of balance with the addition of industrialism. by 2050, or something like that, new york will be under water--not the tops of the towers, mind you. glad I live a mile high (quick quiz--what's the mile high city, and you know where I live then). But I feel sorry for you, NJ. you're gonna be under water, if I remember where portland is.

so, if it's natural, you don't want to stop it. in the process, you lose your home. smooth move.


All a man's knowledge comes from his experiences
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kuresu
Member (Idle past 624 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 10 of 119 (341608)
08-19-2006 11:38 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Cthulhu
08-19-2006 11:25 PM


Re: Global Warming
which one though, geographic or magnetic:)


All a man's knowledge comes from his experiences
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Cthulhu
Member (Idle past 3963 days)
Posts: 273
From: Roe Dyelin
Joined: 09-09-2003


Message 11 of 119 (341609)
08-19-2006 11:47 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by kuresu
08-19-2006 11:38 PM


Re: Global Warming
Geographic. If he meant the magnetic north pole, he would've specified. Not that the magnetic north pole ever had a thriving rainforest either, since by the time rainforests existed, the area around the possible locations of a magnetic north pole had already frozen over.
This message is a reply to:
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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5622
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006


Message 12 of 119 (341610)
08-19-2006 11:47 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by anglagard
08-19-2006 11:15 PM


Re: Global Warming
You actually believe that the worldwide (meaning both the parts that speak English and those that don't) rate of CO2 production (that is carbon dioxide, not ozone) is decreasing? Ever heard of China, India, or Mexico? How do you think these populous industrializing nations are making electricity? {hint - it's mainly not wind, solar, hydro, or nuclear}

Certainly, but I'm asking why ecologists are so certain that its global warming as opposed to a normal cycle. I'm not suggesting that increased CO2 levels in the atmosphere don't have serious and adverse effects on the ozone. Certainly they do. I'm just asking how they have surmised that it isnt attributed to a natural cycle that we weren't around in the past to understand.


“It is in vain, O' man, that you seek within yourselves the cure for all your miseries. All your insight has led you to the knowledge that it is not in yourselves that you will discover the true and the good.” -Blaise Pascal
This message is a reply to:
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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5622
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006


Message 13 of 119 (341611)
08-19-2006 11:55 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Cthulhu
08-19-2006 11:25 PM


Re: Global Warming
That's quite a feat, considering that at no point in the history of life of Earth has there been land at the North Pole.

Okay, then perhaps I should have said the Arctic Circle instead.

"Greenland was once upon a time a tropical country. That is proved absolutely by the remains of an extensive tropical flora which are found there. Where now a sheet of solid ice over a mile thick covers mountain and valley, and mighty frozen rivers called glaciers make their way to the sea and hatch icebergs, there was in earlier days a verdure-clad wilderness of luxuriant vegetation. Together with the palms and tree ferns, there were trees related to the giant sequoias of our own west coast; also representatives of the "gingko," the sacred tree of Japan and of the Eucalyptus family, which today is restricted to Australia. Climbing vines festooned the trunks of these monarchs of an ancient forest with draperies of foliage, while close to the ground grew those curious dwarf trees called "cycads," somewhat resembling palms in miniature, in the midst of a tangled undergrowth of ferns and other flowerless plants that carpted the densely wooded areas."

http://www.ku-prism.org/polarscientist/losttribes/Jan131897Boston.htm


“It is in vain, O' man, that you seek within yourselves the cure for all your miseries. All your insight has led you to the knowledge that it is not in yourselves that you will discover the true and the good.” -Blaise Pascal
This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Cthulhu, posted 08-19-2006 11:25 PM Cthulhu has responded

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crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 119 (341613)
08-20-2006 12:00 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Hyroglyphx
08-19-2006 11:02 PM


Re: Global Warming
What if the apparent Warming effect so happened to be a natural cycle of the earth.

We have records of the gas content of the atmosphere going back 600,000 years. The current CO2 content of the atmosphere is at least 10 times the previous high-water mark, profoundly out of the range of the natural CO2 variation.

That time period includes several previous ice ages, and even that "Great Warming" that occured in the middle ages. There's absolutely no known process that could result in these super-elevated CO2 levels besides human industrial activity.

I mean, we know empirically that the North Pole was once a lush, rainforest.

I doubt that very much, since there's nothing up at the North Pole but ice floating in water. Maybe you were thinking of Greenland, or the South Pole perhaps?

But what should happen if we are just going through a natural cycle and that very few of the problems have to do with anything?

When you see the movie, you will be presented with the evidence that this simply isn't the case. it's unimpeachable.


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nwr
Member
Posts: 5585
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005


Message 15 of 119 (341618)
08-20-2006 12:03 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Hyroglyphx
08-19-2006 11:02 PM


Re: Global Warming
What if the apparent Warming effect so happened to be a natural cycle of the earth. I mean, we know empirically that the North Pole was once a lush, rainforest.

Are you saying that, because there is a small chance (very small indeed) that the science could be wrong, we should do nothing. And if, as a result, human greed makes the planet uninhabitable by humans, well that's the roll of the dice?

If that is, indeed, your view, how does it fit with your Christianity?


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