Quick question on the world flood

I don't know if this is the appropriate area for the topic, so that's why I gave this the title I did. Anyway, how did the dodo get to and from the Mauritius island before and after the flood, and how did it not die in the process? I need this for a paper I'm doing. Thanks.- Dane

Well as its a quick question I`ll give a quick answer...It didn`t because there wasn`t.....

Well, I thought that that might be the answer, but I was looking for an explanation from someone with the premise "the Bible is true."I kept the question short because if I went on and on, small points would be picked at rather than the big question. I could have posted the essay I'm writing here, but that would get me no further than I already am.

Gah, I just saw the "Geology and the Great Flood" forum. Oh, well. I'd still like to know... If I could move my topic I would.

Your wish is my command...topic will be moved to Geology and the Great Flood.--------------------EvC Forum Administrator

Thankee, Mr. Admin. Just thought I'd say that.

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how did the dodo get to and from the Mauritius island before and after the flood, and how did it not die in the process?

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I will answer your question from the prospective of someone who believes the earth is old and theorizes that the flood occurred as a late Ice Age rise in sea level.First in light of the face that the fossil history of this species is unknown, we don't know how if it predates the time of the flood or not. Considering the limited opportunity for fossilization on a island and the limited number of small fossil bird bones that are discovered, we may never know. The biblical flood occurred at the end of the ice, which is generally estimated at about 10k, the biblical date however is of course more recent. So, does the species predate the end of the ice age, or is it a recent development? The Dodo and it's related species; the Runion solitaire and the Rodrigues solitaire, which are all extinct, lived on three different islands. The differences between the three species seems to be small, based on the limited descriptions we have on these animals. These flightless birds are believed to be descended from the pigeon family. It seems unlikely that pigeons would arrive on all three islands and independently take the same evolutionary course, rather it seems more probable that the birds arrived on one island and spread from there after the major changes had occurred, including the loss of flight. This island hopping would of had to then been by means of water transport at some point. The islands are about 500 miles east of Madagascar and are 110 and 344 miles apart. What may of happened is that before the flood, the ice age ancestor of the three species inhabited one island and in the course of the flood ended up on all three. Of course the rafting events may have occurred at any time, aside from the rafting in the flood itself, which may or may not have resulted in flightless birds ending up on different islands. Or perhaps pigeons did recently arrive on all three islands and ended up with simular results under simular conditions, lacking a fossil history, it is a possibility we can not prove or disprove at this point. Hopefully genetic examination of the remains of these animals kept in various museums will someday clear up the relationships between these three species and perhaps clarify current thinking on what species they are descended from, and possibly reveal the rate the genetic changes occurred at.I don't believe you will get an intelligent response from a YEC on this question, details like this tends to reveal the separation of YEC flood theories from reality.

The standard creaitonist answer (which I beleive is the correct one) is that the flood entailed all of the events that mainstream geology assigns to the last 550 million yezars of history.In other words all of the sea-level up and downs, all of the continental movements etc we believe occurred during and shortly after the flood. The aftermath of the flood included continental movements, glaciation which can cause sea-level drops and glacial melting which can cuase sea-level rises. This easily allows for land brides to occur for migration.If there was never a global flood I would thouroughly agree with themainstream 550 million year age of the fossil bearing rocks. But there is much evidence of rapidity of layering evident in the geological column. The sedimentary rocks look like a global flood and the Bible tells us there was one as well.[This message has been edited by Tranquility Base, 11-20-2002]

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If there was never a global flood I would thouroughly agree with themainstream 550 million year age of the fossil bearing rocks. But there is much evidence of rapidity of layering evident in the geological column. The sedimentary rocks look like a global flood and the Bible tells us there was one as well.

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Isn't it interesting that the sedimentary rocks only look like a global flood to YECs while everyone else in the last 200 years or so has been able to see that there is absolutely no evidence for a global flood in the geologic record and massive evidence against it. You have been clobbered on your so called flood evidence on thread after thread and still can't see that it doesn't exist. You still don't understand and probably never will understand that the reason that creationist can never say exactly which layers were deposited by the global flood is that no layers were deposited by a global flood because there never was a global flood. Yes there is evidence of some rapidly layering in some places but no evidence that any of that rapid layering came from a global event and there are many features of the world's geology that are totally inconsistent with flood deposition, even by your magic whirling swirling surging flood.Of course the dodo "kind" couldn't have come off the ark among all those hungry predators and made it to Maritius and reunion island alive. Not only must it make there alive but it must get there ahead of all the fast moving predators that might have fed on it so land bridges again fail to help. The dodo was so unused to predators that it just walked up to people to be slaughtered. Your "explanation" for the Dodo is as absurd as your other claims about biogeography.You have been shown several falsifications of the global flood from geology, paleontology, biogeography and biodiversity. You just shrug off all the various falsifications of the global flood because the Bible says there was a flood, which you think the Bible says was global, and this is the only reason you think the sedimentary rocks look like a global flood.
Randy

Are you aware that the higher order sea-level curves are considered to be global?Do you realise that the majority of the layering on any continent is due to these inundations?Do you still believe, as I used to, that most layering occured in lakes, river deltas and swamps? If so, it's time to move into the real world of model-free observational geology.[This message has been edited by Tranquility Base, 11-20-2002]

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Originally posted by Tranquility Base:
Are you aware that the higher order sea-level curves are considered to be global?

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Do you realise that the majority of the layering on any continent is due to these inundations?

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And is this evidence that all the continents were covered with water in the same flood year? Of course not. I think this has been explained to you on several rather long threads. Meanwhile, why don't you just say that God magically transported the dodo to Maritius where it could live without predators until men showed up. That would not really be much more unscientific than some of your other claims.Randy

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Originally posted by Tranquility Base:
Are you aware that the higher order sea-level curves are considered to be global?

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Are you aware that fluctuating sea levels do not force the conclusion of a global flood?

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Do you realise that the majority of the layering on any continent is due to these inundations?

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Are you aware that layered rocks on any continent do not necessarily indicate that all continents were submerged at one time?

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Do you still believe, as I used to, that most layering occured in lakes, river deltas and swamps? If so, it's time to move into the real world of model-free observational geology.

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Do you still believe this is what geologists think or used to think? If so, it is time to get a reality check.

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Do you still believe, as I used to, that most layering occured in lakes, river deltas and swamps? If so, it's time to move into the real world of model-free observational geology.

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No and I never did believe this. However most layering was formed no layering is the result of a global flood. Layering that occurred in lakes, such as the several million layers in the Green River formation that correlate with millions of years of climate cycles,http://www.geocities.com/...henke/krh-floodnonsense.html#A04while not the most common form of layering is seen and serves as further flood falsification as if any was needed.Eolian sandstones, Hard grounds and palesols all show that supposed global flood deposits are not global flood deposits and many of these have been or are being discussed on other threads.
http://www.glenn.morton.btinternet.co.uk/paleosol.htm
http://www.geocities.com/pgspears/hg.htmOf course layers are being formed in lakes today. The varves in lake Baikal extend back millions of years and provide a record of paleoclimate as well as falsifying the global flood or maybe it just didn’t quite surge up to lake Baikal.http://www.pages.unibe.ch/..._reports/contidrill/4impor.htmland there are the varves in lake Suigetsu that have been used to calibrate C14 dating back about 45,000 years.Biology – Carleton CollegeI guess that’s another place the global flood missed.Maybe the dodo jumped off the ark and one of your surges carried to Maritius where it just swam around until the flood was over. That sounds about a good as your other so-called explanations for biogeography.Randy

Your statement that 'no layering occurred due to a glpobal flood' is an article of faith, Randy. Maybe if you keep saying it, it might come true for you. I'll stick to the evidence rather than rhetoric.When the dogma of long ages was contructed about 200 years ago, everyone was unaware that neat layering could occur rapidly. Surely, it was thought, these layers represent seasonal variations? No, hydrodynamic sorting can do it in seconds:

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p132 "Many strata must have been deposited very rapidly. In terms of geological time, they represent essentially instantaneous events, usch as floods, that had durations ranging from a few seconds to several days."

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p135 "In the past there has been a tendancy to interpret each lamina as produced by a separate sedimentation event - for example, a tidal cycle, the swash and backwash of a single wave, or a single bed load avalanche. It is now clear, however, that laminae may also be produced by strong flow, particularly during traction on a plane bed in the upper flow regime."

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H Blatt, GV Middleton & RC Murray Origin of Sedimenary Rocks Prentice-Hall (New Jersey) 1980

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'It is reasonable to postulate a very rapid rate of deposition; that is a single lamina [or layer] would probably be deposited in a period of seconds or minutes rather than in a period of hours....There is factual evidence from both field observation and experiment that laminae composed of bed material are commonly deposited by current action within a period of seconds or minutes.'

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Alan V. Joplin, Dept. of Geology, Harvard, 'Some Deductions on the Temporal Significance of Laminae, Journal of Sedimentary Petrology, Vol. 36, No. 4, from pp. 880-887

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There is no reason why the majority of the geological column cannot be interpreted in this way.[This message has been edited by Tranquility Base, 11-21-2002]

EdgeI can prove from previous posts that I do not believe those things and you know it.What I do beleive is that the evidence is consistent with a global flood.