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Author Topic:   If religion had not happened at all what would the year be?
ohnhai
Member (Idle past 5162 days)
Posts: 649
From: Melbourne, Australia
Joined: 11-17-2004


Message 1 of 34 (178972)
01-20-2005 3:07 PM


I’m not starting another is religion true/false thread. This is just a hypothetical bit of fun.
Ok If religion never got started in the first place what would be the year? It wouldn’t be 2005 cause there wouldn’t have been the birth of Christ to pin year zero on.
How would we count the years and from when would we count them? What event would we use as the moment to start counting?
I would probably have to choose full planetary alignments (all in a row), which are rare enough, but would you re set the count after each one or pick just one.
Also what if BC and AD hold no meaning would BCE and CE be applicable or would we use something else.
Anyway so long as you hold the assumption that religion never happened what would the year be?
Have fun

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AdminJar
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 34 (178991)
01-20-2005 4:35 PM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 3 of 34 (178994)
01-20-2005 4:38 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by ohnhai
01-20-2005 3:07 PM


BCE etc.
Also what if BC and AD hold no meaning would BCE and CE be applicable or would we use something else.
Clearly BCE and CE would be gone too.
There would be some particular point in the history of some nation or empire that would have stuck as the starting point. I'd think it could have been the founding of Rome so we would be somewhere over 2500 after the founding now.

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Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 34 (178996)
01-20-2005 4:43 PM


Without christianity, my guess is that we might have adopted other religious calendars, perhaps the Jewish or Islamic calendar.
However, you seem to be saying that without ANY religion where would we start. Just on a whim, if the Romans had stuck around for another few hundred years perhaps the founding of Rome by Romulos (or was it Romus, can never remember) could be the start. The birth/death of Alexander the Great, The Fall of Rome would be a great one (if a specific event could be agreed upon for the Fall of Rome). Overall, I think it would be based on a specific person or event within the Mediterannean civilizations. Persian or arabic events may have some influence, but more than likely it would probably be based on a Western civlization.
This message has been edited by Loudmouth, 01-20-2005 16:44 AM

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 5 of 34 (179000)
01-20-2005 4:59 PM


Remember that the idea of a yeaar is a pretty recent concept
and still not adopted world-wide.
The only thing that drives the acceptance of a uniform year is commerce. Otherwise we would still likely be on the seperate year systems that were in common well into the 1500s.
My guess is that a uniform year would still result, again, solely for reason of commerce, but that it would be totally arbitrary and set as some accepted date unrelated to anything other than some treaty.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 6 of 34 (179003)
01-20-2005 5:14 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by jar
01-20-2005 4:59 PM


common year
It might be, if we adopted it as commerce became world wide that the starting point would be picked to keep dates small (under 10,000) and far enough back to avoid negative dates in recorded history.
That would make the Jewish dating pretty good and we'd have the year as about that of the creationists idea of the years since creation week .

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CK
Member (Idle past 4128 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 7 of 34 (179018)
01-20-2005 5:39 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by NosyNed
01-20-2005 5:14 PM


Re: common year
On a similar note - due to errors in time-keeping isn't the year actually something like 2008/2009?

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Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 34 (179039)
01-20-2005 6:15 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by NosyNed
01-20-2005 4:38 PM


Re: BCE etc.
quote:
I'd think it could have been the founding of Rome so we would be somewhere over 2500 after the founding now.
Hehe, great minds think alike.

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ohnhai
Member (Idle past 5162 days)
Posts: 649
From: Melbourne, Australia
Joined: 11-17-2004


Message 9 of 34 (179089)
01-20-2005 7:53 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by jar
01-20-2005 4:59 PM


Re: Remember that the idea of a yeaar is a pretty recent concept
Cool, I was vaguely aware of that but it hadn’t actually crossed my mind in regard to this problem.
Would Greece not be a more likely contender for setting a common year, a lot academic thought came out of there?
In all the differing system were the years the same length?
This message has been edited by ohnhai, 01-20-2005 19:59 AM

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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 10 of 34 (179091)
01-20-2005 7:59 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by ohnhai
01-20-2005 7:53 PM


Switching calendars.
Cool, I was vaguely aware of that (and the confusion in dating things from records contemporary with the events they portray, the they switched calendars in the 1400s didn’t they, the Gregorian and the other one?)
In all the differing system were the years the same length?
It was two different times when they switched from the Julian calendar (after Julius Caesar) to the Gregorian (after Pope Gregory). The English didn't want to deal with the Popist new-fangled stuff but the calendar got to be 11 days out of whack with the seasons and finally they had to.
Technically the year lengths are not exactly the same. The treatment of leap years makes them (on average) different. If they were the same length the calendar would have continued to diverge from the seasons.

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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 11 of 34 (179092)
01-20-2005 8:01 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by ohnhai
01-20-2005 7:53 PM


Re: Remember that the idea of a yeaar is a pretty recent concept
No, they obviously varied.
One interesting thing about the Gregorian calendar was that the English Nations didn't except it until much later. Check out the mystery of Washington's birthday.
One other thing. Among the decisions that came out of the Council of Trent when the Gregorian system was adopted was a provision related to commerce. Since 11 days were being dropped there were provisions that said no one could be penalized because they missed a deadline that fell during the skipped days or that debt holders could charge extra interest as though those days had actually passed.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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berberry
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 34 (179094)
01-20-2005 8:16 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by jar
01-20-2005 4:59 PM


Re: Remember that the idea of a yeaar is a pretty recent concept
I agree that the concept of the 'year' would surely have come about regardless of religion. Not only due to commerce, but also because it represents the period of time which encompasses all of the seasons we experience.
The idea that we would have numbered our years based on the founding of Rome makes sense, but I would think it might have been just as likely that we based the number on the advent of written language, or the dividing point between history and prehistory. We might also have "reset the clock" at the invention of the printing press.
One can also imagine that numbering systems in various geo-political regions might have differed for centuries without Christianity. Here in the English-speaking world we might well have reset the numbering at the Norman Conquest of 1066. If we had done so our January 1 (or its functional equivalent) would have been in the fall, during what we call October.
Likewise, America might have had a system starting with what we call 1776, in which case New Years Day would have been in the dead of summer.
At some point an international system of year numbering would have been required, but it should not be taken as a given that the the US would have subscribed to its usage. We still live in the dark ages of weights and measures, after all.

Keep America Safe AND Free!

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kjsimons
Member
Posts: 821
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003
Member Rating: 6.7


Message 13 of 34 (179098)
01-20-2005 8:28 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by ohnhai
01-20-2005 3:07 PM


What about Asia?
It's currently the year 4701, soon to be 4702 in the Chinese calendar. Why so centered on the Middle East and Europe?!

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ohnhai
Member (Idle past 5162 days)
Posts: 649
From: Melbourne, Australia
Joined: 11-17-2004


Message 14 of 34 (179113)
01-20-2005 9:02 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by kjsimons
01-20-2005 8:28 PM


Re: What about Asia?
force of habit I guess.
Out of interest what event, place person is year zero cantered on? (I know next to nothing about Chinese Mythology or ancient History.
This message has been edited by ohnhai, 01-20-2005 21:04 AM

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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 15 of 34 (179118)
01-20-2005 9:12 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by ohnhai
01-20-2005 3:07 PM


It would be just past mid-year of the Year of our Ford 141.
Don't you guys read?

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