Video of Iraqi Insurgent being interogatted

Link to VideoSome of you wanted to know who the insurgents are. This will give you good insight. It is about 10 minutes long and worth every second.Pay attention to his mention of Syrian and Iranian squads.Some Transcript

Ya man, that's pretty f*ed up.ABE:I have a video of a public stoning. But I will spare the forum the brutality.Some sick sh*t goes on in this world.This message has been edited by Yaro, 08-22-2005 06:13 PM

I really cannot comprehend going in there and allowing Iran and Syria to remain in power feeding these terrorists.Why not call a press conference, air this video and have the president explain the bombs will start falling on the headquarters of the Iranian hard-core leaders and Syrian military as we speak, and then tell the world and Iran we will stop when the military topples the religious leaders and swears allegience only to the elected leaders, and demand new elections take place?Tell Syria that if they do not round up and get rid of the terrorists in their land, we will take out their military completely.

so less holier than though bullshit pleaseThis message has been edited by mick, 08-22-2005 08:42 PM

Targeting civilians as the insurgent terrorists do is a little different than prison abuse.

POTM!added in edit:sorry, I misread randman's post.I now look forward to randman one day enjoying prison abuse...This message has been edited by mick, 08-22-2005 09:45 PMThis message has been edited by mick, 08-22-2005 09:47 PM

let's try this again.

quote:

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Most of the prisoners, howeverby the fall there were several thousand, including women and teen-agerswere civilians, many of whom had been picked up in random military sweeps and at highway checkpoints. They fell into three loosely defined categories: common criminals; security detainees suspected of crimes against the coalition; and a small number of suspected high-value leaders of the insurgency against the coalition forces.

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Reporting | The New Yorker

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60% or more of the prisoners at abu ghraib were civilians. this is not really a debated fact, to my knowledge. iirc, many of them were there from when saddam was in charge.considering the degradation and sexual punishments used, the rape is exactly analagous. civilians were targetted as part of the enemy insurgency, and later raped or sexually degraded by the people handling them. most had nothing to do with the terrorists, it seems.so, although you intended understatement, it is (only) a little different: we didn't kill them afterwards.

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אָרַח

There is no doubt such abuse is horribly wrong, and one wonders how and why it occurred since it seems to have been implemented at the hands of spook investigators. Maybe they were experimenting on these people, as that sort of thing has occurred here in America (MK-Ultra for example).No doubt this was wrong, and imo, not properly understood, nor investigated fully.But the point is the US military is not launching offensive operations against the civilians as the terrorists are.I am not sure what went on with the prison stuff, but our offensive military operations seem to be targetted on finding and killing the insurgents.

uh, yes, it was investigated. the parties in involved were court martialed in a court of military law. breaking the geneva convention is something people take very seriously. we call it "war." they call it "holy war." it's a holier-than-thou argument at it's core. what we do is war, but what they do is terrorism. what we do is ritual, what they do is idolatry. same thing. who are, btw, generally civilians, since they are not an organized state army. but that's generally not what people mean when they say "civilians" such as in the reference above. if we want to clarify, how about the term "non-combatant?"and uh, if we're not rounding up non-combatants, how did so many get in abu ghraib, to get molested and abused?

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אָרַח

You believe that all the parties involved were court-martialed, fine. It's off-topic, but it looked to me like higher-ups from US intelligence agencies were never investigated at all.

yes, if i recall, they were not. they denied being involved, but you're right: that should have been investigated further.

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אָרַח

They appeared to be orchestrating it, if you ask me. There was something strange about the whole thing. Why did the soldiers feel, as they stated, that this was encouraged.Many people don't realize that our government has funded, in a massive way, psychological experiments even involving torture and abuse, upon civilian Americans and Canadians. It's a matter of public record from the years 1947-1975 (who knows the years later), and no one has ever been held accountable for it, although some president's have apologized like Clinton even.I can imagine that it would not be surprising if certain operations and experiments would be carried out in other nations as well, if the opportunity arose. The prison scandal smacked of this type of thing. It didn't help the president, nor foreign policy. It seemed senseless, and out of jurisdictional control. No "controllers" were held accountable, and it appeared even beyond the scope of the Executive Branch and the Pentagon brass.Plus, the ones that were reported to have initially instigated it worked for the CIA or other intelligence agencies.Altogether, it looked very similar to something like MK-Ultra, don't you think?

This was intended to show you who the insurgnets are, but since you insist on bringing up abu graihb, let me apologize.For good and ill, the Iraqi prisoner abuse mess will remain an issue. On the one hand, right thinking Americans will abhor the stupidity of the actions while on the other hand, political glee will take control and fashion this minor event into some modern day massacre.I humbly offer my apologies here:I am sorry that the last seven times we Americans took up arms and
sacrificed the blood of our youth, it was in the defense of Muslims (Bosnia, Kosovo, Gulf War 1, Kuwait, etc.).I am sorry that no such call for an apology upon the extremists came after
9/11.I am sorry that all of the murderers on 9/11 were Islamic Arabs.I am sorry that most Arabs and Muslims have to live in squalor under savage dictatorships.I am sorry that their leaders squander their wealth.I am sorry that their governments breed hate for the US in their religious
schools, mosques, and government-controlled media.I am sorry that Yassar Arafat was kicked out of every Arab country and
high-jacked the Palestinian "cause."I am sorry that no other Arab country will take in or offer more than a token amount of financial help to those same Palestinians.I am sorry that the USA has to step in and be the biggest financial
supporter of poverty stricken Arabs while the insanely wealthy Arabs blame the USA for all their problems.I am sorry that our own left wing, our media, and our own brainwashed masses do not understand any of this (from the misleading vocal elements of our society like radical professors, CNN and the NY TIMES).I am sorry the United Nations scammed the poor people of Iraq out of the
"food for oil" money so they could get rich while the common folk suffered.I am sorry that some Arab governments pay the families of homicide bombers
upon their death.I am sorry that those same bombers are brainwashed thinking they will
receive 72 virgins in "paradise."I am sorry that the homicide bombers think pregnant women, babies, children, the elderly and other noncombatant civilians are legitimate targets.I am sorry that our troops die to free more Arabs from the gang rape rooms and the filling of mass graves of dissidents of their own making.I am sorry that Muslim extremists have killed more Arabs than any other group.I am sorry that foreign trained terrorists are trying to seize control of Iraq and return it to a terrorist state.I am sorry every time terrorists hide they find a convenient "Holy Site."I am sorry they didn't apologize for driving a jet into the World Trade Center that collapsed and severely damaged Saint Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church - one of our Holy Sites.am sorry they didn't apologize for flight 93 and 175, the USS Cole, the
embassy bombings, the murders and beheadings of Nick Berg and Daniel Pearl, etc....etc!I am sorry Michael Moore is American; he could feed a medium sized village in Africa.America will get past this latest absurdity. We will punish those
responsible because that is what we do.Deep down inside, when most Americans saw this reported in the news, we were like - so what? We lost hundreds and made fun of a few prisoners. Sure, it
was wrong, sure, it dramatically hurts our cause, but until captured we were trying to kill these same prisoners. Now we're supposed to wring our hands because a few were humiliated?Our compassion is tempered with the vivid memories of our own people killed, mutilated and burnt amongst a joyous crowd of celebrating Fallujahans.If you want an apology from this American, you're going to have a long wait!You have a better chance of finding those seventy-two virgins.Chuck Pitman Lieutenant General, USMC (Ret)

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Long as we're throwing around mea culpas, I feel moved to share:I am sorry that our current administration's only standard for employment in high government office is that one refrain from being convicted of a crime.I am sorry that this administration lied to us about WMD in order to gain support for a war they had no business starting, no clue how to conduct and no plan for winning.I am sorry that this administration lied to us by saying that this war would last "weeks rather than months".I am sorry that this administration sends other people's sons and daughters off to fight this war without proper armour.I am sorry that this administration chooses to use the tragic deaths of thousands of Americans on 9/11 in a shameless attempt to divert attention from its own massive failures.I am sorry that this administration will stop at nothing to silence opposition to its war-making policies; not even smearing the name of a fallen soldier's grieving mother is too low for them.I am sorry that this administration has sufficient hubris to believe it can win this war, but not quite so much that it is willing to send its own sons and daughters to fight in it.EDITED to delete redundant sentence.This message has been edited by berberry, 08-23-2005 08:38 AM

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"I think younger workers first of all, younger workers have been promised benefits the government promises that have been promised, benefits that we can't keep. That's just the way it is." George W. Bush, May 4, 2005

I'm sorry that all of the territory of the United States were stolen from the indigenous peoples.I'm sorry that the United States went to war with Mexico in order to grap a huge chunk of Mexican territory.I'm sorry that Americans living in Hawaii overthrew the indigenous government and asked to be annexed by the US.I'm sorry that the US went to war with Spain in order to grab what was left of its overseas territories.I'm sorry that the Philipino resistance was crushed in a brutal occupation.I'm sorry that the US imperial ambitions in East Asia provoked the Japanese to attack a military base in a far-off colony that few Americans had even heard of at that time.I'm sorry that the US overthrew the popular Mossadegh government in Iran and replaced it with the brutal Shah.As well as the democratically elected Arbenz government in Guatamala.And the democratically elected Allende government in Chile.I'm sorry that the US supported a terrorist group fighting against the democratically elected Sandanista government in Nicaragua.I'm sorry that the US is increasingly hostile against the popular and democratically elected Chavez government in Venezuela.