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Author Topic:   Innevitable Armageddon (theory)
killinghurts
Member (Idle past 3103 days)
Posts: 150
Joined: 04-23-2008


Message 1 of 40 (489959)
12-01-2008 12:30 AM


Most Christian based religions propose that, one day, a catastrophic event will begin (Armageddon), we'll all be faced with a fiery death (or the like) and God will "intervene" and save those that have been 'faithful' (or the like).

My theory is:

Seeing as though there are a lot of people who beleive in this story (or similar), and humans have the ability to create weapons of mass destruction, Humans will *definitely* bring on Armageddon via target fixation in the near future.

Target fixation (for want of a better 2 words) is my way of explaining how humans have a tendency to fixate on a target or goal even when that target/goal is undesirable - take someone driving a car for example. If said person is driving toward a pole and, at the last second, realizes the pole is there - he or she is more likely to hit the pole if they are completely fixated on the pole than if they are looking elsewhere - they drive toward where they are looking.

I'm proposing the same thing for Armageddon. It's going to happen simply because Humans imagine it will. They are fixated on it, therefore it *will* happen.

Also..

Given the current high activity in terrorism around the globe, and it's blanket targeting of innocent civilians, it looks like it might happen earlier rather than later.

What do you think?


Replies to this message:
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Message 2 of 40 (489990)
12-01-2008 8:11 AM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.
    
killinghurts
Member (Idle past 3103 days)
Posts: 150
Joined: 04-23-2008


Message 3 of 40 (490736)
12-07-2008 10:15 PM


Example from another thread:

quote:

I will concede to you that the prophecies cited prior to chapter 35 related more to earlier times.

However if you work back from the prophecies of chapter 39 the fact remains that all of these nations mentioned have never risen to the status that they had before their fall way back then.

The prophet had no knowledge as to how much time would pass before the significance of these prophecies came into play. In our time the entire Middle East has taken front stage in world news and events with these regions of earlier prophecy playing significant roles. These nations are the ones which have led the drive to end the reinstatement of the nation of Israel to their land and have laid claim to the land which Jehovah promised to the prophesied restored kingdom of Israel.


Thanks to our obsession with the "end of the world", we're now just waiting for it to happen. Media is pressured to observe and recant stories of the middle east, politicians are forced to act.

Amazing what the human imagination can do...

Edited by killinghurts, : spelling


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Coyote
Member (Idle past 215 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 4 of 40 (490738)
12-07-2008 11:11 PM


Armageddon tired of these "end of the world" stories
Perhaps it would be best to recognize that these "end of the world" predictions have been universally wrong throughout history. With a track record like that, who would anyone take such myth-based predictions seriously?


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
  
bluescat48
Member (Idle past 2299 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 5 of 40 (490739)
12-07-2008 11:26 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by killinghurts
12-07-2008 10:15 PM


The prophet had no knowledge as to how much time would pass before the significance of these prophecies came into play. In our time the entire Middle East has taken front stage in world news and events with these regions of earlier prophecy playing significant roles. These nations are the ones which have led the drive to end the reinstatement of the nation of Israel to their land and have laid claim to the land which Jehovah promised to the prophesied restored kingdom of Israel.

Obviously, where else would such prophesies be at other than the Middle East when that was all of the earth that they even knew about. Taken front Stage? There has been constant fighting in that area for at least 6000 years or as long as civilization has been in the area.


There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002

Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969


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Peg
Member (Idle past 3039 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 6 of 40 (492069)
12-27-2008 11:26 PM


if you look at the bible armageddon, it is said to be Gods war to end wickedness and human suffering

the bible says to 'Raise yourselves erect and see the salvation of God'

so, for me, Armageddon is something to look forward to... it will see the destruction of the evil influence of Satan the devil (Gods greatest adversary) it will put an end to corrupt and abusive human rulership and it will ensure that human rights will finally be implemented by God himself

in the words of the prophet Daniel

Dan 2:44 'In the days of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin...it will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms and it itself will stand to times indefinite'

thats why Christians were taught by Jesus to pray for Gods Kingdom to come and for his will to be done on earth as it is in heaven.

Bring it on


Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 12-28-2008 10:39 AM Peg has responded
 Message 12 by onifre, posted 12-29-2008 5:47 PM Peg has responded

    
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 1210 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 7 of 40 (492113)
12-28-2008 10:39 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Peg
12-27-2008 11:26 PM


Armageddon is not innevitable unless we desire it to be!
if you look at the bible armageddon, it is said to be Gods war to end wickedness and human suffering
the bible says to 'Raise yourselves erect and see the salvation of God'

so, for me, Armageddon is something to look forward to... it will see the destruction of the evil influence of Satan the devil (Gods greatest adversary) it will put an end to corrupt and abusive human rulership and it will ensure that human rights will finally be implemented by God himself

in the words of the prophet Daniel

Dan 2:44 'In the days of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin...it will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms and it itself will stand to times indefinite'

thats why Christians were taught by Jesus to pray for Gods Kingdom to come and for his will to be done on earth as it is in heaven.

Bring it on

This attitude (as so eloquantly demonstrated by the illustrious war mongering Peg) for the desire for bloody conflict and self-destruction is the crux of the problem with humanity. It is not until we as a species can rise up out of this selfish, conceited, self-destructive nature and resolve to overlook our racial, ethical, religious and cultural differences can we as a species thrive and really do great things. How can we go to the stars or even to the ends of our solar system if we can't even learn how to peacefully work together for the common good?

Why does Armeggedon have to be our answer to the battle over good and evil? Have we not soiled enough blood in attempting to assert our will's over each other?

One of my favorite modern philosopher, the late Dr. Carl Sagan, had this to say:

Carl Sagan in "Reflections on a Mote of Dust" writes:

Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.

The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner, how frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds.

Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the Universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves

Our common goal as human beings should be to end human suffering and to ensure equality, freedom and humane treatment of ALL people around the world.

No, I am not a tree-hugging pacifist. I am a 16 year veteran in the US Navy and have been deployed to the Persian Gulf four times on two destroyers and an aircraft carrier. I have sat at a weapon system console with my hand on the trigger of a multi-million dollar missile system ready to send people I have never met to their doom. I have personally seen the devastating affects of war. However, I am proud of the freedoms my country stands for. It is sometimes necessary to resort to armed conflict to protect those who cannot protect themselves (i.e. WW II, etc) however I also believe we as human beings should strive to do our best to resolve conflicts using democratic/peaceful means before resorting to the devastating ramifications of armed conflict.

Finally a closing thought which describes our dire state of affairs, "Mankind must put an end to war, or war will put an end to mankind." President John F. Kennedy.

Armageddon is not innevitable unless we as a species desire it to be!


For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan
This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Peg, posted 12-27-2008 11:26 PM Peg has responded

Replies to this message:
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 Message 11 by Bailey, posted 12-29-2008 2:24 PM DevilsAdvocate has not yet responded

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 1401 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 8 of 40 (492169)
12-29-2008 12:27 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by killinghurts
12-01-2008 12:30 AM


Here is a site that documents past and present prophecies regarding end of the world. Enjoy!

http://www.abhota.info/index.htm


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by killinghurts, posted 12-01-2008 12:30 AM killinghurts has not yet responded

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 3039 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 9 of 40 (492178)
12-29-2008 4:16 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by DevilsAdvocate
12-28-2008 10:39 AM


Re: Armageddon is not innevitable unless we desire it to be!
I completely agree with your sentiment DA. We should put war out of existence... but it wont happen will it! time and time again nations go to war and the situation is the same as its always been

we certainly will bring Armageddon upon ourselves because eventually God WILl say enough is enough and he will be forced to act before we blow ourselves to smithereens.

Devils Advocate writes:

Why does Armageddon have to be our answer to the battle over good and evil? Have we not soiled enough blood in attempting to assert our will's over each other?

yes we have soiled enough blood, hence why we need a higher intervention.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 12-28-2008 10:39 AM DevilsAdvocate has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by bluescat48, posted 12-29-2008 8:29 AM Peg has responded

    
bluescat48
Member (Idle past 2299 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 10 of 40 (492206)
12-29-2008 8:29 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Peg
12-29-2008 4:16 AM


Re: Armageddon is not innevitable unless we desire it to be!
we certainly will bring Armageddon upon ourselves because eventually God WILl say enough is enough and he will be forced to act before we blow ourselves to smithereens.

So God will destroy mankind to prevent man from destroying mankind?
Boy that makes a lot of sense, nonsense that is.


There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002

Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969


This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Peg, posted 12-29-2008 4:16 AM Peg has responded

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 Message 13 by Peg, posted 12-29-2008 8:34 PM bluescat48 has not yet responded

    
Bailey
Member (Idle past 2479 days)
Posts: 574
From: Earth
Joined: 08-24-2003


Message 11 of 40 (492234)
12-29-2008 2:24 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by DevilsAdvocate
12-28-2008 10:39 AM


Reality does not need groupies ...
Thank you for the exchange.
And for your military sacrafice DA ...

Our common goal as human beings should be to end human suffering and to ensure equality, freedom and humane treatment of ALL people around the world.

No, I am not a tree-hugging pacifist.

You sound like someone else I know ...

[holyspirit,cough,jesus,cough,god]

Three centuries after Jesus died, when Christianity became the sole official religion of the Roman Empire, people of many different 'stories' were suddenly all jammed together under one roof. It was like the bar scene in Star Wars. A lot of compromises were made. Christianity became a melting pot of many diverse and unrelated stories. Below is a version for those who are not easily misled or offended. There is no chapter and verse ...

A long, long time ago, when Jesus was alive, it was a lot like today. People were suffering and struggling under the weight of civilization. There was a powerful military system running everything. Few were rich and many were poor. Common people had no power at all. It was not a happy time.
When Jesus was about 30, he'd been working for many years, watching the suffering, and thinking. One day he came to realize that carpentry was not the answer, so he set off for the wilderness. Out in the wilderness, he met a wild uncivilized holy man named John, who wore animal clothing and lived on locusts and honey.

John's story was one of baptism and repentance. He called out to civilized people -- the warriors, carpenters, farmers, and priests -- and he begged them to repent of their sins and return to a state of harmony. Those who repented, he immersed in the River Jordan, and thereby opened their hearts to the perfection of Creation.

When John baptized Jesus, the sky opened up, the Holy Spirit appeared in the form of a shining white dove, Jesus was filled with divine ecstasy, and he instantly recognized the infinite beauty and power of the Creator.

Immediately after his awakening, Jesus went off into the mountains for a 40-day vision quest. During that time, his soul was deeply imbued with the perfection of Creation. It was a time of profound healing and growth for him. Many important answers were revealed.

One day, Satan, the King of the Yuppies, saw this scruffy long-haired blue collar carpenter pilgrim sitting on a rock in the sacred forest. Satan offered Jesus a free ticket to Consumer Nirvana - a lifetime shopping spree at every mall on planet Earth. By this time, Jesus was so high on Creation that he just shook his head, laughed, and said "Nah, that sounds like a bad trip, man." Not being one to pass up a chuckle, he followed with his best Yoda voice "Once you've chosen the path to the darkside, forever will it control your destiny, hurmmm."

Out there in the wilderness, Jesus found what the people of Palestine had lost. When he finally came back into town, he was floating, glowing, and utterly radiant with holy energy. Folks picked up on this right away, and they asked him what he'd been smoking.

Well, Jesus would just break into a big grin, laugh, and sit down and tell them his story. Accumulating riches isn't the answer, he'd tell them. Wealth is a disease of the soul. Blessed are the humble and poor, and woe unto the Consumers - lol.

Another thing Jesus talked about was unconditional love. The Romans ruled the land by using the tactics of divide and conquer. They kept people alone and afraid. Love was the antidote to this tyranny. The miraculous power of love could bring people together, unite them in action, and make their journey easier and brighter.

Jesus told them about the Golden Rule: do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Most of the great theologians of Christendom have never taken a 40-day vision quest in the wilderness, so most of them have completely missed the great meaning of the Golden Rule. This rule may not just apply to human matters; to PETA's credit, it likely applies to interactions with every species that walks, flies, blooms, and swims.

Well anyway, it didn't take too long before this talk had the priests, generals, and all the groupies riled up. We all know what happened next. Jesus got killed long before he could live out his vision. The truth of His vision still stands; it still remains to be completed ...

And it's up to us to pick up where he left off.

Armageddon is not innevitable unless we as a species desire it to be!

A very uplifting assertion, though it appears unfortunately untrue; reality will manifest itself whether it is ignored or pursued. The conscious pursuit of armageddon is only one of a number of ways to reach the 'innevitable'. We as a species have incidentally (accidently?) arranged the possibility of armageddon within our reality, independently of such purposes as it may provide. This simply implies we have created the egg before the chicken; we do not need to desire these 'innevitable' scrambled eggs in order to blow up the chicken though.

Historically speaking, reality suggests armageddon (species suicide) is seemingly innevitable. Technology may sustain humanity to its population limit, but it will not likely save humanity from final and fatal catastrophe, and military technologies like weaponized chemicals and atom bombs will likely facilitate such a disaster. Additionally, armageddon is simply possible before fatally innevitable or finally purposed and the bulk of mankind does not appear to fancy a desire to participate in Armageddon's festivities. Regardless of fanatical persistence, religious fringe beliefs of select few, though increasing, have not willed their fate upon the rest of us; to think otherwise is to accept religion. Respectively, our species need not desire armageddon, or the threat it seems to provide, in order for it to manifest in reality.

In conclusion, being naive to such ends throughout the ages has encouraged progress thus far. Hence, ignoring the reality of Armageddon should reasonably permit and promote its future manifestation. A prerequisite stipulating preconceived desire for annihilation of mankind does not seem necessary to promote the onset of armageddon (species suicide); such a reality will manifest itself whether it is ignored, pursued or otherwise. Respectively, ignoring the reality of the Golden Rule should reasonably permit and promote its future manifestation; one need not subscribe to succumb.

We may likely agree that one must believe in something or they'll fall for anything ...

One Love

Edited by Bailey, : spelling


I'm not here to mock or condemn what you believe, I'm just a fool playing with ideas.
My only intention is to tickle your thinker. Trust nothing I say. Learn for yourself.
Think for yourself.

Mercy Trumps Judgement,
Love Weary


This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 12-28-2008 10:39 AM DevilsAdvocate has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Blue Jay, posted 12-30-2008 1:42 AM Bailey has responded

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 1060 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 12 of 40 (492264)
12-29-2008 5:47 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Peg
12-27-2008 11:26 PM



if you look at the bible armageddon, it is said to be Gods war to end wickedness and human suffering

Yes but what about the current expansion of the universe and our collision course with the Andromeda Galaxy...?

For that matter, what about the Suns' eventual death...?

What if another meteor hits like the one that destroyed the dinos...?

Who will save us from all that!?!?!?!? A guy on a cross!? Fuck that, we need Superman!!!

the bible says to 'Raise yourselves erect and see the salvation of God'

The Bible says, "Raise yourselves erect"...? Done!

thats why Christians were taught by Jesus to pray for Gods Kingdom to come and for his will to be done on earth as it is in heaven.

Wait, then why have Earth...? Just so God can ridicule His screwed up creation...? What a douche!


"All great truths begin as blasphemies"

"I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks

"I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Peg, posted 12-27-2008 11:26 PM Peg has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Peg, posted 12-29-2008 8:40 PM onifre has not yet responded

    
Peg
Member (Idle past 3039 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 13 of 40 (492290)
12-29-2008 8:34 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by bluescat48
12-29-2008 8:29 AM


Re: Armageddon is not innevitable unless we desire it to be!
no,

God will put an end to war by destroying war mongers

those who are seeking peace will get it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by bluescat48, posted 12-29-2008 8:29 AM bluescat48 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 12-30-2008 12:27 PM Peg has responded

    
Peg
Member (Idle past 3039 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 14 of 40 (492291)
12-29-2008 8:40 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by onifre
12-29-2008 5:47 PM


onfire writes:

Yes but what about the current expansion of the universe and our collision course with the Andromeda Galaxy...?

For that matter, what about the Suns' eventual death...?

What if another meteor hits like the one that destroyed the dinos...?

Who will save us from all that!?!?!?!? A guy on a cross!? Fuck that, we need Superman!!!

if we were to believe that the universe exists without direction, then sure you might have a point about its eventual demise.
But if it is under direction, then its demise is a fallacy because its creator will keep the sun powered, and keep the expanding universe in a course that will not collide

onfire writes:

Wait, then why have Earth...? Just so God can ridicule His screwed up creation...?

im not sure i get what you mean here... why have an earth??? Perhaps because it is our home and the place where we were made to reside?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by onifre, posted 12-29-2008 5:47 PM onifre has not yet responded

    
Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 807 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


Message 15 of 40 (492312)
12-30-2008 1:42 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Bailey
12-29-2008 2:24 PM


Re: Reality does not need groupies ...
Hi, Bailey.

Bailey writes:

We may likely agree that one must believe in something or they'll fall for anything.

I'm afraid I disagree strongly with this. Belief tends to make more people fall for stuff than disbelief. In fact, "disbelief," in my mind, is the diametric opposite of "falling for something."

Belief leads to attachment, and attachment leads to passion, which is what raises tempers and causes wars. Disbelief, or at least healthy skepticism, goes a long way towards curbing one's passion.

Now, if everybody could believe in the same something, it would work out fine, but, as many religions are finding, the only way to get people to believe in the same something is by force. Which, ironically, defeats the entire purpose of trying to get everyone to believe in the same something.

Ironically, I've now come to the same conclusion that you did, by assuming the exact opposite conditions. That's depressing.

-----

And, "inevitable" only has one "n".


I'm Bluejay.

Darwin loves you.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Bailey, posted 12-29-2008 2:24 PM Bailey has responded

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