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Author Topic:   Organic computers
subbie
Member (Idle past 1276 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 1 of 9 (386883)
02-24-2007 12:53 PM


quote:
Einstein + bacteria DNA = organic computer breakthrough
Ian Sample, science correspondent
Thursday February 22, 2007
The Guardian
Scientists have written a message into the DNA of a living organism, a breakthrough they believe could lead to a new era of organic computers capable of healing themselves if damaged. The researchers encoded Einstein's most famous equation and most prolific year into the genome of one the hardiest strains of bacteria in the world, Bacillus subtilis. The characters "E=MC^2 1905!" were then read from the bacterium at a later date by analysing its genetic sequence.
In the proof-of-principle experiment, the research team showed they could write a message into the bacterium's DNA and retrieve it. The process is slow, taking days to complete. But because the organisms are so hardy and are able to pass on data to future generations, they may still find a role in storing large amounts of information that do not need to be accessed quickly.
Yoshiaki Ohashi, who led the study at Keio University in Tokyo, said that bacteria have the potential to store vast quantities of data and are more resistant to the kinds of damage that could wipe modern hard drives. "Information storage using DNA is robust for more than one hundred million years," he said.
The researchers wrote the message by first converting it into binary. This code was then built into artificial strands of DNA, using letters such as AG to mean 1000 and TC to mean 0111. The strands were then injected into the bacterium.
A difficulty is that bacteria are promiscuous when it comes to swapping DNA with other microbes. But the team believe the mutation rates are slow enough to ensure messages are still readable, especially when the bacteria form a tough spore.
Professor Ohashi said the process would work equally well in plants, fruit and insects. "Cockroaches are very interesting, because they have an ability to tolerate [extreme] environments."
While the researchers' main goal is to create living memories for a new breed of DNA computers that perform calculations using strands of genetic material, the technique could also be used to tag organisms for life, by inserting identification markers into their genome. The research is published in the journal of the American Chemical Society.
In 2004 Israeli scientists used DNA to power the world's smallest computer, a molecular computer designed to identify traces of prostate and lung cancer in blood and deliver a DNA-based treatment telling the cancerous cells to self-destruct.
Einstein + bacteria DNA = organic computer breakthrough | Science | The Guardian
Not sure if this belongs here, but it's very intriguing.

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Taz, posted 02-24-2007 5:55 PM subbie has not replied
 Message 3 by Taz, posted 02-24-2007 8:28 PM subbie has not replied
 Message 4 by Doddy, posted 02-25-2007 8:36 PM subbie has not replied
 Message 5 by Lithodid-Man, posted 02-26-2007 2:40 AM subbie has not replied
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Taz
Member (Idle past 3312 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 2 of 9 (386912)
02-24-2007 5:55 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by subbie
02-24-2007 12:53 PM


Star Trek the next generation told us about this possibility almost 20 years ago. The klingon spies are known for hiding top secret informations in their DNA.

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Taz
Member (Idle past 3312 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 3 of 9 (386936)
02-24-2007 8:28 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by subbie
02-24-2007 12:53 PM


On the same line of thought, Species 8472 from Star Trek Voyager uses organic technology completely with an organic brain as a living computer. This was introduced about a decade ago.

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Doddy
Member (Idle past 5930 days)
Posts: 563
From: Brisbane, Australia
Joined: 01-04-2007


Message 4 of 9 (387072)
02-25-2007 8:36 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by subbie
02-24-2007 12:53 PM


quote:
But the team believe the mutation rates are slow enough to ensure messages are still readable, especially when the bacteria form a tough spore.
This won't help the claim by creationists that mutations can't add information, or occur to slowly, or are corrected too efficiently, to drive evolution.

"Der Mensch kann was er will; er kann aber nicht wollen was er will." (Man can do what he wills but he cannot will what he wills.) - Arthur Schopenhauer
Help inform the masses - contribute to the EvoWiki today!

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Lithodid-Man
Member (Idle past 2952 days)
Posts: 504
From: Juneau, Alaska, USA
Joined: 03-22-2004


Message 5 of 9 (387090)
02-26-2007 2:40 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by subbie
02-24-2007 12:53 PM


For creationists of the future
When I read this story what came to my mind is that if this technology becomes common it could have a profoundly negative effect on the development of science in the future IF our species gets set back to basics (say global catastrophe) or even extinct and another species achieves our type of consciousness.
This is kind of in fun, but has some real potential implications. Picture this, In 2008 our civilization completely collapses (War? Plague?). The survivors revert to tiny tribal societies. Ten thousand years later civilization achieves a modern level of technology. Similar to us, but maybe even made a few better decisions. Rationality is the rule of the day, superstition nearly gone. Intelligent design is practically extinct, thought of like flat-Earth. Then some scientists sequencing the genome of some species of wild yeast find in code "Bob's mother did the entire histology lab" or some other message. The scientist immediately converts to ID, which spreads like wildfire. See the point? Messages aside, the beauty of genetic sequencing today is that it wholly supports the nested heirarchies and is therefore probably the best evidence of evolution out there. How we would have dealt with discovering obviously manipulated genes (say, I don't know, Atlanteans had reached our level of genetic engineering)?

Doctor Bashir: "Of all the stories you told me, which were true and which weren't?"
Elim Garak: "My dear Doctor, they're all true"
Doctor Bashir: "Even the lies?"
Elim Garak: "Especially the lies"

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Lithodid-Man
Member (Idle past 2952 days)
Posts: 504
From: Juneau, Alaska, USA
Joined: 03-22-2004


Message 6 of 9 (387093)
02-26-2007 3:02 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by subbie
02-24-2007 12:53 PM


Deleted repeat post
Deleted repeat message
Edited by Lithodid-Man, : After odd computer glitch though message lost but instead posted twice.

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Taz
Member (Idle past 3312 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 7 of 9 (387200)
02-26-2007 10:12 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Lithodid-Man
02-26-2007 2:40 AM


Re: For creationists of the future
Litho, this is why I have been saying for years that IFF certain aspects of life appear designed (and perhaps they very well had been intelligently designed), it does not necessarily mean the judeo-christian god created everything in 6 days. Speaking as a skeptic, I would have no problem believing a technologically advance alien race or perhaps a technologically advance civilization in our distant past was responsible for some genetic manipulation, given there's sufficient evdience for it.
See, this is a major flaw in the logic of the ID movement. Why does it have to be the judeo-christian god that's behind the intelligent design? Why couldn't it be a technologically advance alien race or a technologically advance human civilization in our very distant past?
Picture this, In 2008 our civilization completely collapses (War? Plague?).
Some fundies have said to me that the holocaust never happened because god was too good to allow it to happen. Recently, a very vocal, or rather fingery, EvC fundy told me that jesus is too good to allow such a collapse of civilization to happen. You have to get past this point first.

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subbie
Member (Idle past 1276 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 8 of 9 (387223)
02-27-2007 8:05 AM


Litho, here's the problem I see with your suggestion. I think it would be nearly impossible for any future phoenix-like civilization on this planet to be ignorant of the existence of our society. Any catastrophe that would be sufficiently destructive to remove all trace of our existence would probably completely destroy the planet. It certainly would set life back millions of years, not tens of thousands.
Assuming the future civilization is aware of our existence, they might well attribute to us the ability to create the genetic coding that they see, just as we would do were we had evidence of a previously existing advanced civilization.
Taz writes:
I would have no problem believing a technologically advance alien race or perhaps a technologically advance civilization in our distant past was responsible for some genetic manipulation, given there's sufficient evdience for it.
Emphasis added.
I think it virtually impossible that an earlier advanced civilization on this planet would have left no traces behind or that we could miss that evidence.

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

Replies to this message:
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Doddy
Member (Idle past 5930 days)
Posts: 563
From: Brisbane, Australia
Joined: 01-04-2007


Message 9 of 9 (387315)
02-27-2007 7:53 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by subbie
02-27-2007 8:05 AM


I think it virtually impossible that an earlier advanced civilization on this planet would have left no traces behind or that we could miss that evidence.
What if they made it that way?
Then again, this is completely useless. If there is no observable difference between a planet having a prior civilisation or not having one, then we should accept the more simple answer.

"And, lo, a great beast did stand before me, having seven heads, and on each head were there seven mouths, and in each mouth were there seventy times seven teeth. For truly there were seven times seven times seven times seventy teeth, meaning there were. . . okay, carry the three, adding twenty. . . plus that extra tooth on the third mouth of the sixth head. . . Well, there were indeed a great many teeth" - The Revelation of St. Bryce the Long-Winded
Help inform the masses - contribute to the EvoWiki today!

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