Message for Jar

Hi Jar,I have the Rendsburg article now in which he argues for an 11th century Exodus and Conquest, it was in 'Vetus Testamentum 42' and not the Journal of Biblical Literature.Can you email me at either itaintnecessarilyso@hotmail.com or 0205100j@student.gla.ac.uk and let me know which format you would like it in, I prefer to use 'Word', is that okay for you?Cheers.

Thanks. Mail sent.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Brian,I would be interested in the article also. Also a thread for historic discussion of the exodus. I've little background but was very impressed with the book THE BIBLE UNEARTHED. Finklestein as I recall says the Isrealites were always in Canaan.lfen

Hi IfenIf you send an email to my hotmail addy (uni one is down for maintenance today) I will post it to you and Jar.I will be about one hour or sooner before I send it in Word.I liked Finkelstein and Silberman's book as well, although it was written for the general public and I prefer his more academic works.Regarding the Israelites in Canaan, all the archaeological data strongly suggests that Israel emerged from within Canaanite society ad there is nothign at all that hints at a military conquest at all.I would enjoy a decent thread on the historic discussion of the Exodus, but more than likely it would become polluted by nonsense posted by dumb and dumber! We could still have a go at it if you like.Brian.

As would many of us. I would even like to see it expanded from the 13-12th century all the way up to the 9-8th century to include the emergence of the Kingdoms.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Are you saying that Israel went to Egypt from Canaan and returned there after Egypt? Israel was to wipe out all eight Canaanite tribes after Egypt, which thy did not do.

'Israel' was never in Egypt, IMO.The 'Israel' of the primary history books of the Bible is a literary invention.The Israel that we know have always been in Palestine, there is no break in material culture to suggest a new entity entered the Palestinian hill country irrespective of which date is proposed.Brian.

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I liked Finkelstein and Silberman's book as well, although it was written for the general public and I prefer his more academic works.

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Brian,I'm new to this and don't have a background in the academic aspect. I also like the book WHO WROTE THE BIBLE by Friedman, but again that is a book for lay audience.There is a yahoo group, the jesusmysteries, that focuses on the questions of the gospels,dating, myth, historic issues. Apologetics are not allowed. Christians can certainly post but all the discussions are required to be academic and not assertions of faith. They do a good job of keeping it on track.I don't know if it's possible to have a thread with a similiar restriction here or not.The recent Ron Wyatt thread was an eye opener for me but at present avoidance of that kind of fantasy seems the only possibility. Education and reason seems to be futile.thanks,
lfen

On what do you base 'IMO'?

Hi George,Based on the fact that the only place we see Ancient Israel is in a literary source, i.e. The Hebrew Bible, it doesn't exist anywhere else.Brian.

Hi, Brian,
thanks. So, they just appeared from nowhere/where?/somewhere, sometime when? From the woodwork or something?
George

Hi George,Ancient Israel didn't appear from anywhere, the Ancient Israel of the Bible didn't exist.If you are talking about the post monarchic Israel, then the earliest confirmed date would be the 9th century BCE. There is one reference to a Byt-Dwd in the Tel Dan Stele, suggested by some to be 'The House of David' but the reading is ambiguous, and the context of the stele doesn't resemble the Bible's description of the united monarchy at all.The people who later became know as 'Israel' may have been some of the former inhabitants of the lowland city-states that show a decline in population at the Late Bronze Age/Early Iron Age transition. Much of the population of these city-states moved to the central hill coutry and settled there. This is only one possibility of course, and a few others have been argued for as well.Brian.

Thank you. You are very kind.
How argues these possibilities? All of the things the Jews espouse, are lies? Who fabricated them, and for what purpose?
George

Of course they aren't lies. They are folk tales. Some were likely fabrications, designed to enhance the political power of a village leader, priest or tribe. Others, like Genesis were just adaptations of existing earlier mythology. Lots were likely based on some real event but exagerated and embelished over the years as the tales were told.edited to add required spelling errors.This message has been edited by jar, 08-07-2004 10:44 PM

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Pecos,Friedman in his book WHO WROTE THE BIBLE argues that the Torah was written during or after King Josiah's reign. He analyzes the texts to show the conflicts between different groups of priests, and also Judah's rivalry with Isreal. He presents some reason why it might have been written by Ezra.Whether you agree with his conclusions you might find his analysis interesting, such as why the golden calves, as there were no known religions that worshipped calves.lfen