Were The Prophets/Messiahs Jesus and Mohammed Inspired By The Same God?

In the comic POTM thread was this exchange between Jar and me: So here we are to discuss whether the gods of Christianity and Islam are one and the same god or not.
First off, please understand that I am a sole proprietor of a business and have many other activities to attend to so if you post in this thread, please be patient. There's no rush or panacea here. If you think it's a race to the finish, just remember that buz is occasionally the hare but quite often the tortoise. I would appreciate that the thread discussion be limited relative to the fundamentals of the books and writings of the prophets and their apostles, for the most part.Feel free to address any or all of the four questions as follows:1. Do the lives and practices of these two prophets suggest that the same god inspired them both?2. Do the New Testament gospels of Jesus and the epistles of his apostles and desciples read and teach fundamentals consistent with fundamentals of the prophet Mohammed and his desciples in the Quran, the Hadiths and Sunas so as to suggest a common inspiration by the same god?3. Do the gods of Mohammed and Jesus share the same proper name? I've emboldened the word 'proper' so as to not be confused with descriptive title. For example, 'the man Jesus' and his god Jehovah or the man Mohammed and his god, Allah. Here you have both the descriptive title and proper names of the prophets/messiahs and their respective gods. The NT does not name the god of Jesus, but over 6000 times he is named Jehovah in the OT earliest manuscripts. These names may be included as on topic in the discussion.4. Are/were the religions and followers of the god Allah and the god Jehovah compatible in real life both now and historically? Are/were they relatively tolerant of one another or not?This message has been edited by buzsaw, 12-21-2005 08:39 AM

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The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw

Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

1. jehovah is not the proper name.
2. considering that jews, christians, and muslims all consider that the other guys have the right god but worship him in the wrong way, i'd think it's a good bet they're right.
3. el, allah, elohim, el-shaddai, el-*insert some other thingummy here*
jesus is the word, the holy spirit is the breath of god. el is an ancient mesopotamian wind god and the apparent source of all these semitic gods.they're the same critter, regardless of how well their idiot followers get along.

You aren't a christian?Do you truly believe there are multiple gods? I don't believe in any but I guess if I can believe in none, you can believe in multiples. I figure Faith and others are going to have fun with this topic.I don't think I have seen the idea of multiple gods ever touched on in this forum. Should be a fun debate.

The names of gods as the names of men have meanings. Jehovah, meaning 'the existing one' is exclusively Biblical. Allah, the Muslim god is this god's name and actually means 'god,' the meaning and the proper name being one and the same.
Over 6000 times in the early manuscripts YHWH/Yahweh/Jehovah is the proper name of the Biblical god. Elohim/god is simply the title of what the god Jehovah is. Thus on occasion in the OT you may se YHWH ELOHIM, or Jehovah, god/the god, Jehovah. He is not a man. He is a/the god, the 'a' or the 'the' depending on whether you are monotheist or polytheist. The elohim/god word is generic, in that it may apply to any god, based on context. That is the fact, whether you choose to accept it or reject it.

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The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw

You need to get used to it, my friend. Though I'm monotheistic, we're now emerging into the polytheistic era in the good ole US of A where the word 'god' does not necessarily refer to the Biblical god, Jehovah. To the Greek polytheist, the word elohim may refer to many gods.

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The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw

yes, but jehovah is not his name. his name is not in english. jehovah was made up by an inaccurate translation.

time for the hebrew lesson again. god's name is:יְהוָהsince that's normally rendered without vowel points, more people think it should be pronounced "yahweh." the bible i've chosen to copy this from is rendering it "yehvah" or "yehwah." traditionally, god's proper name, yahweh, is not to be spoken aloud. jews substitute another word for the name of god:אֲדֹנָיthat's anonay. i've made them nice and big so you can easily see the vowel points. now, if i take the vowel points from 'adonay and put them onto yahveh, i get:יֲהֹוָהor YaHoVaH. starting to look familiar? now bring it into english. yud's tend to become j's at the beginning of words, like it "jacob" and "joseph" and "jerusalem." the j- sound does not exist in hebrew, period. we use the letter j because that's what a lot of germanic translations used. they pronounce it the same was as "yah."so yahweh + adonay = yahovah = jehovah.it is a bastardization of god's name. as proof that it should not be said this way, have a look at a few common names in the bible that derive from the name of god: isajeh, jeremijeh, zephanijeh, zedekijeh, obadijeh, zecharijeh, nehemijeh... sounds kind of silly, doesn't it? "jehovah" sounds just as silly to anyone who knows anything about the hebrew language and history. the hebrew word for "is" is:היהit isn't used in normal writing. you leave out passive verbs. but doesn't it look similar to something else? we pronounce it "hayah." quite regularly, actually. it's the yahwist's choice phrase for naming god. elohym is a title, yahweh is a name. it's saying WHICH god. yet you will find whole sections of the bible in which god is called ONLYאֱלֹהִים(elohym). genesis 1 is a good example. this is evidently being used as a name. it does not fit the grammatically rules for pluralization. for instance, in genesis 1, "bara elohym" would be "barym elohym." it's possible that it's just an exception, sure, but one of the most common exceptions are names.besides which, usage doesn't mean much of anything. nobody uses god's name in the hebrew world. the refer to him as "elohym" or "adonay" or even "ha-shem" (the name).but let's look at somthing for a second. here are some title variants of god in the bible:אלהימ
אלוה
אל-(shadday, etc)el and elohym have exact cognates in many, many other languages of the area. many societies had a god named el, such as the ugarits and the babylonians. and el generally meant god as a title. but let's look at something really neet. if i wanted to write the arabic name of god, allah, in hebrew it would look like:אלהlook familiar? modern (standard) hebrew derives strongly for arabic. so we have quite a lot of cognates. a customary greeting in arabic is "alikum salaam" but in hebrew it's "shalom." both mean "peace" literally.

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אָרַח

All this stuff about the actual letters of the words and the necessary changes from language to language are just silly superstition. God's Name is I AM. That's what the tetragrammaton MEANS. God is the self-existent eternal One. The Name is the Character in Hebrew. It's superstitious fussiness to get all caught up in the language issues.If Buz says that Jehovah is the true God that's not a signal to indulge in all this nitpickery. It's merely a statement that He is not Allah, because Allah does not mean what Jehovah, Yahweh, YHWH means. He does not have the same attributes and he does not have the same name which IS those attributes. He is not the same God.This message has been edited by Faith, 12-22-2005 05:29 PM

So what is written in the bible doesnt matter? Your arguments are ludicrous. You use the bible when it reinforces your arguments, but discount it when it doesn't.How can you say your current NKJV is correct when you don't critically analyze what it was translated from? Do you now claim that the translators were divinely inspired? Did the changes they made to the original text come from god?

Such a topic, Buzz! To start with, different people have different worldviews and belief paradigms. Your first question is relevant. Do the lives and practices of these two prophets suggest that the same god inspired them both? No. You have a valid point. The historical accounts of Jesus differ widely from the historical accounts of Muhammed.Some people believe that humans invented gods and deities to explain their lack of understanding. If one were to believe that this were true, one could assume that the Universe had no Creator.Others believe that God imagined/created and defined reality itself...including all creation...long before any of us were conceived. Beliefs are all relative by human definition. Beliefs may be absolute apart from this fact, however.
Can I prove it? (No.)
Assumem, for a moment, that we are all believers in something. Given this, it is plausible that those of us who believe the same way (intuitively if not concretely) will know each other and will get along. As for the rest of you? You are legends in your own minds. You have no connection with the same Spirit as the rest of us do. Label me as judgemental and carry on! (and God Bless You! )This message has been edited by Phat, 12-22-2005 03:49 PM

Of course they were. We know quite a bit about the life of Mohammed, but almost nothing of the life of Jesus. So that is something that simply cannot be answered. When the Old Testament and the Talmud are included, yes, certainly. What a silly sophomoric question. Many people don't know that God's real name is Fred. Judaism and Islam have a long history of living together in mutual support. Recently, mostly due to the interference of the Christian world, there has been great problems associated around land, power and gorvernance between the Jews and Muslims, and very recently between the Muslims and Christians. But considering the horrific acts of treachery committed by the Christian World against the Islamic World over the last 100 years or so, that is not unexpected.Christians have had a history of persecuting Jews for thousands of years. Except for the period when the Muslims were used by the Christian West as a surrogate for internal strife during the Crusades, the Christian West has pretty much ignored the Muslim World, concentrating instead on simple anti-semitism.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

You are right that "Allah" does not mean what "Jehovah" means. "Jehovah" doesn't really mean anything - it is an inaccurate transliteration of Hevrew which is probanly best represented as "Yahweh" (although nobody knows for sure what the vowels should be).Of course "Allah" DOES mean the same as "God". So unless you are prepre to say that your "Jehovah" is not "God" you have no argument.p

What is your problem? Why should I discuss anything with anyone who talks to me like that?

Well, if you study the injunctions of YHWH and Allah, if they aren`t the same god, they are certainly brothers in butchery.