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Author | Topic: Anti-Islam school presentation | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jaderis Member (Idle past 3426 days) Posts: 622 From: NY,NY Joined: |
From FoxNews.com
quote: Kamil International Ministries has every right to believe what they believe and say what they say, but they do NOT have the right to force their virulent message upon high school students, especially without prior parental knowledge. What do you guys think? See also The Lede's blog entry on the issue. And (surprise!) CBN doesn't seem terribly concerned.
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AdminNem Inactive Member |
Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.
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anastasia Member (Idle past 5953 days) Posts: 1857 From: Bucks County, PA Joined: |
Jaderis writes: Kamil International Ministries has every right to believe what they believe and say what they say, but they do NOT have the right to force their virulent message upon high school students, especially without prior parental knowledge. I agree with that; I believe a comparisocn of two idealogies could be educational, but should be tastefully presented. I would not object to a something like this if it were. I do not like quote-mining. It is fun when you are, say, catholic as I am, and someone hands you anti-catholic literature, and you can TELL that someone is quote-mining and grasping at straws. But does your average high-school student know the Bible and the Koran so well? And know both faiths so well? You can definitely look in the Bible and find damning passages, but no real follower of the Bible will condone rape and pillage, genocide or slavery. It is not fair to present another group based on the bad passages either...or to characterize all Muslims that way. I do believe that Muslims could treat women a bit better, not because they cover themselves and can't vote, etc, but I have a friend who is Orthodox, essetailly 'married' to a Muslim, who is nice and sweet and quiet, but ever so subtly he demeans her. He will not marry her because his family will protest, he does not let her arrange the house or furnish the house, or accept gifts which he finds 'ugly'. Is that because of his religion or societal up-bringing? I don't know. That type of controlling is not by any means limited to Muslim men. I think a caution for all women to recognize and avoid abuse or defamation is good, but not like in this scenerio.
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Taz Member (Idle past 3292 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
In short, the teacher who invited the christian group should be fired.
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DorfMan Member (Idle past 6081 days) Posts: 282 From: New York Joined: |
quote: ...has any business in a public school. That's why it is a public school for all publics to attend. Children should be taught at home about religious matters, (or in religious schools), and that includes lessons on mahomet.
quote: So far as slandering mahomet is concerned? With easy internet access, a study about his life is quickly found. It is then possible to determine exactly who mahomet was. One might suggest this to the outraged non-practicing muslim, or really anyone who is curious about such rumors.
quote: This happens to be true. However, it has no business in a school, it has no business being given to children regardless of age and without guidance from parents.
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Doddy Member (Idle past 5910 days) Posts: 563 From: Brisbane, Australia Joined: |
This happens to be true. Just for reference, this is the full verse (from English Tranlation of Sura 1-4):
quote: Do we have a resident expert on Arabic who is able to determine if this was the orginal meaning? "Der Mensch kann was er will; er kann aber nicht wollen was er will." (Man can do what he wills but he cannot will what he wills.) - Arthur Schopenhauer
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Lithodid-Man Member (Idle past 2931 days) Posts: 504 From: Juneau, Alaska, USA Joined: |
I found this to be amusing from that pamphlet (and seems to found via Google search at hundreds of Christian websites:
"Husband, beat your wives and deny them sex." (The book of Islam, Koran 4:34) ” "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the Church and gave Himself for her." (The Holy Bible, Ephesians 5:25) The latter quote is exact form the New International Translation. The former quote however from the Koran is completely reworded:
Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great. Now I agree that the gist is the same. The passage is pretty much saying what the Christian pamphlet alledges. But do fundies want to open that can 'o worms? I mean what is the gist of "Jonathan and David made a covenant, because he loved him as his own soul" (1 Sam. 18:3)? Or even more revealing "Then Saul's anger was kindled against Jonathan, and he said unto him, 'Thou son of the perverse rebellious woman, do not I know that thou hast chosen the son of Jesse to thine own confusion, and unto the confusion of thy mother's nakedness'" (1 Sam. 20:30). We all know what 'confusion' means, nudge nudge, wink, wink. The point here is not about King David's sexuality, but about how printing one point as a fair translation and the opposition's point as a paraphrase is severly dishonest (although I love to throw in the David/Jonathan thing into any good debate with fundies, fun to watch them squirm). Had the teacher brought the group in as an example of alternate thought, I would be all for it. They should also have the Islamic views presented. If the teacher brought this group in as evidence, they should be fired on the spot. When I was in high school our history teacher had a communist activist come into speak in our class. We were told beforehand that this person would present a viewpoint that was in opposition to most of our beliefs. But that we need to allow a voice for dissenting beliefs. She came, spoke, was absolutely terrible. High school students shredded her arguments. But later the teacher was in trouble for allowing this person to speak. We all stood up for the teacher, as her intent was to show us a different viewpoint (however incorrect). So I think the intent of the teacher needs to be examined. Doctor Bashir: "Of all the stories you told me, which were true and which weren't?" Elim Garak: "My dear Doctor, they're all true" Doctor Bashir: "Even the lies?" Elim Garak: "Especially the lies"
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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
it's really no different than "women, obey your husbands" and with an even better reason. if the man is providing for her, she should respect his wishes more than her own. if she is providing for him, the opposite is true.
further, why should one be intimate and open with someone who is disgracing him?
and honor their husbands during their absence if nothing else, this sounds like unfaithfulness. why should you be with your wife if she's fucking around?
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
and honor their husbands during their absence if nothing else, this sounds like unfaithfulness. why should you be with your wife if she's fucking around?
I read it as "honor their husbands during thier husband's absence" not, "honor their husbands during their own absence".
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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
yes, during their husbands' absence. if you're off in tajikistan on business, your lady might get bored in her little house in rural jordan... this commands her to behave herself while you're away.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
oh...now your reply makes LESS sense.
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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
... try reading.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
OOOOooooohh...is THAT what I'm suppose to be doing?
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Rascaduanok Junior Member (Idle past 5268 days) Posts: 21 From: Save Warp Joined: |
surah an-Nisa’ (4):34 writes: Husbands should take full care of their wives, with what God has given to some more than others, and with what they spend out of their own money. Righteous wives are devout and guard what God would have them guard in their husbands’ absence. If you fear high-handedness from your wives, remind them [of the teachings of God], then ignore them when you go to bed, then hit them. If they obey you, you have no right to act against them: God is most high and great. Edited by Rascaduanok, : Correcting a minor spelling error. $_=q{$_=q{Q};s/Q/$_/;print};s/Q/$_/;print
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Nighttrain Member (Idle past 3994 days) Posts: 1512 From: brisbane,australia Joined: |
I do not like quote-mining. It is fun when you are, say, catholic as I am, and someone hands you anti-catholic literature, and you can TELL that someone is quote-mining and grasping at straws. But does your average high-school student know the Bible and the Koran so well? And know both faiths so well? You can definitely look in the Bible and find damning passages, but no real follower of the Bible will condone rape and pillage, genocide or slavery. It is not fair to present another group based on the bad passages either...or to characterize all Muslims that way.
Hi, Ana, I`m a little confused (normal for me, my friends say). You say you dislike quote mining, then tell us a ' real follower' will discount the rape/pillage/genocide/slavery passages. Isn`t this a form of quote mining?
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