Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
7 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,811 Year: 3,068/9,624 Month: 913/1,588 Week: 96/223 Day: 7/17 Hour: 3/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   FOR CHRIS - Proposing a topic
CK
Member (Idle past 4127 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 1 of 31 (201695)
04-24-2005 11:57 AM


In this following link, you suggest a new ID topic:
http://EvC Forum: simple evidence for id? -->EvC Forum: simple evidence for id?
When you are asked to revise it, you reply:
quote:
I don't see a point in rambling on through a paragraph. I don't see what's wrong with using general krull's style for this.
Chris, there is a difference between replying in a thread and trying to kick off a topic.
Those are the most recent threads I had started:
quote:
What's so great about the death of Jesus?
This is not a thread to discuss what the death of Jesus means for us - it's to discuss what it meant for him.
After reading some of the threads, I've been thinking about the death of Jesus. What in particular was meant to be so great about this act?
If Jesus is a representation of the christian godhead - So what? he's immortal and all-powerful and thus knows that fleeting moment has no real impact for someone beyond the reach of linear time.
If Jesus is a seperate entity - So what? Is there some suggestion that God will be sending him off to hell? As far as I can see, he knows that he off to sit in a big chair upstairs.
Where is the real hardship in this? I just don't get it.
and
quote:
Dinos and Men (How do we assess the claims of sources?)
Folks,
I have recently encounted a young creationist who is asking lots of questions but many need some help in performing critical analysis of sources. In a recent discussion, they used the following source as support to the idea that Evolution has problems. I have no real knowledge in this area and would like some assistance. I will get my young friend to take a look at the answers and we hopeful ask some questions later on.
quote:LENGTHY NOT NEEDED FOR THIS COMMENT
1. How would you perform an analysis of such claims?
2. if people would be so good, can we examine the claims and provides some links or evidence for my friend to look at?
and
quote:
The predictions of Walt Brown
On another thread, Hangdawg13 offered those predictions as "proof" that Walt Brown was right in some respect (the numbering is that used by Hangdawg13):
Prediction 2: Salty water sometimes fills cracks in granite 5-10 miles below the earth's surface, where surface water should not be able to penetrate.
3: The crystalline rock under Gibraltar, the Bosporus and Dardanelles, and the Golden Gate bridge will be found to be eroded into a V-shaped notch. (published in 1995 confirmed in 1988.)
5: The magnetic intensity above black smokers slowly increases because the more recently fractured rock below is cooling.
6: A ten-mile thick granite hydroplate will be found a mile or so under the western Pacific floor.
7: Fossils of land animals, not just shallow water sea creatures, will be found in and near trenches.
8: floor will show it is rising relative to sea level and the center of the earth, because plates are still drifting.
9: When greater precision is achieved in measuring the inner core's rotational speed, it will be found to be declerating.
11: Corings taken anywhere in the bottom of any large lake will not show laminations as thin, parallel, and extensive as the varves of the Green River formation, perhaps the best known of all varve deposits.
12: High concentrations of loess particles will be found in the bottom several hundred feet of most ice cores drilled in Antarctica and Greenland.
13: Muck on Siberian plateaus should have a wide range of thicknesses. The greatest thickness will be in former valleys. Preflood hilltops will have the thinnest layers of muck. Drilling or seismic reflection techniques should confirm this.
14: Rock ice will found to be salty.
15: Bubbles in rock ice will be found to contain less air and much more carbon dioxide than normal.
16: Dirt and organic particles in rock ice will closely resemble those in overlying muck.
17: One should never find marine fossils, layered strata, oil, coal seams, or limestone directly beneath undisturbed rock ice or frozen mammoth carcasses.
18: Blind radiocarbon dating of different parts of the same mammoth will continue to give radiocarbon ages that differ by more than statistical variations would reasonably permit. Contamination by ground water will be most easily seen if the samples came from widely separated parts of the mammoth's body with different water-absorbing characteristics.
19: Soil in "erosion" channels on Mars will contain traces of soluble compounds, such as salt from the subterranean chamber. Soil far from "erosion" channels will not.
20: The number of near-parabolic comets passing perihelion each decade is diminishing slightly. This effect will be seen as better telescopes, more searchers, and higher quality data allow adjustments to be made for our increasing ability to see comets.
21: Some large, near-parabolic comets, as they fall toward the center of the solar system for the first time, will reveal moons acquired as the comets formed. Tidal effects may strip such moons from their comets as they pass the Sun.
24: Excess heavy hydrogen will be found in salty water pockets five or more miles below the earth's surface.
25: Spacecraft landing on a comet will find that comets contain loess and trace amounts of vegetation and bacteria, and about twice the salt concentration of our oceans.
26: the Oort cloud will never be seen, because it doesnot exist.
27: No incoming hyperbolic comet will ever be seen, because comets originated from Earth, not outside the solar system.
28: Comets should have small rocks in their cores.
29: Rocks in asteroids are typical of the Earth's crust.
30: Ceres, the largest asteroid, will be found to have a very Earthlike spin.
31: As has been discovered on the Moon and apparently on Mercury, frost will be found in permanently shadowed craters on Mars. That frost will be rich in heavy hydrogen.
32: Bones or other organic remains that contain enough carbon and are believed by evolutionists to be much older than 70,000 years will be shown to be relatively young in blind radiocarbon tests.
I am offering those as a "menu" rather than a list and propose the following:
1) Hangdawg13 or another person suggests ONE off the "menu" for discussion.
2) Before we get into the details of that claim, evidence must be provided that the prediction PROCEEDS any scientific investigation/experimention that would prove the prediction. If this can not be provided, we label the prediction as "unproven" and then return to 1).
and
quote:
Enter the Matrix! (creationist websites)
We have often hear it said that lots of the creationist sites are incorrect only because they do not know any better. Some more cynical have claimed that some of the people know that the information on their sites is incorrect but wish to promote a false picture of things.
Here is a little experiement I would like to run:
1. Examine the following site: http://www.thematrix.co.uk/
2. See if we can identify and classify any errors,mistakes and so forth.
3. I will then e-mail the webmasters with possible corrections.
4. we will then see if those corrections appear or if the site is altered in any way.
For this to work, we need to concentrate on the elements that are clearly wrong. I would suggest that the Pitdown man is a good place to start?
I have already posted this comment on their site: NOT NEEDED FOR THIS COMMENT
notice the difference?

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Trump won, posted 04-24-2005 12:24 PM CK has replied
 Message 3 by dsv, posted 04-24-2005 12:29 PM CK has not replied

Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1239 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 2 of 31 (201701)
04-24-2005 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by CK
04-24-2005 11:57 AM


Okay it was a joke. Though why a reply would be less thoughtful than an OP is beyond me.
*punctuation
This message has been edited by chris simon porteus jr, 04-24-2005 11:29 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by CK, posted 04-24-2005 11:57 AM CK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by CK, posted 04-24-2005 12:30 PM Trump won has replied

dsv
Member (Idle past 4723 days)
Posts: 220
From: Secret Underground Hideout
Joined: 08-17-2004


Message 3 of 31 (201702)
04-24-2005 12:29 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by CK
04-24-2005 11:57 AM


Krull, I took a look at your Enter the Matrix! (creationist websites) thread through a search. Excellent idea although it didn't seem to take hold.
Just thought I would comment.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by CK, posted 04-24-2005 11:57 AM CK has not replied

CK
Member (Idle past 4127 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 4 of 31 (201703)
04-24-2005 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Trump won
04-24-2005 12:24 PM


Well if a reply in a thread isn't up to much the other people in the debate can follow other lines of enquiry. However if it's the opening posts, it makes replying difficult and the debate may never take off.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Trump won, posted 04-24-2005 12:24 PM Trump won has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Trump won, posted 04-24-2005 12:36 PM CK has not replied

Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1239 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 5 of 31 (201705)
04-24-2005 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by CK
04-24-2005 12:30 PM


I don't think my Op would have a problem in getting replies. I don't think there needs to be further explanation. I thought a sentence was fine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by CK, posted 04-24-2005 12:30 PM CK has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by jar, posted 04-24-2005 12:58 PM Trump won has replied

Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1239 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 6 of 31 (201719)
04-24-2005 12:56 PM


and I don't see why adminmoose cant see that

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 7 of 31 (201720)
04-24-2005 12:58 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Trump won
04-24-2005 12:36 PM


Yes, we know that's what you thought.
But frankly Chris, there are several problems with your idea. First, it is simply an assertion. The rebuttal would be "No it isn't" and frankly, such a rebuttal would be all that's needed. The result is either a very short thread, one OP and one rebuttal and then closed or a long run of "Yes it is" and "No it isn't". Neither make a reasonable debate.
Second, unless you are prepared to support such an assertion, there is little to recommend its promotion. If you added some reason to think you were able to support the idea, it would rate consideration. But to do that, you need to add to the OP, add something like "I intend to show ID because ..." and then list four or five points you believe you will be able to support.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Trump won, posted 04-24-2005 12:36 PM Trump won has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Trump won, posted 04-24-2005 1:01 PM jar has replied

Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1239 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 8 of 31 (201722)
04-24-2005 1:01 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by jar
04-24-2005 12:58 PM


I guess you're right. Not everyone can see the same logic.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by jar, posted 04-24-2005 12:58 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by dsv, posted 04-24-2005 1:03 PM Trump won has not replied
 Message 10 by jar, posted 04-24-2005 1:05 PM Trump won has not replied
 Message 11 by coffee_addict, posted 04-24-2005 1:08 PM Trump won has replied

dsv
Member (Idle past 4723 days)
Posts: 220
From: Secret Underground Hideout
Joined: 08-17-2004


Message 9 of 31 (201726)
04-24-2005 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Trump won
04-24-2005 1:01 PM


For what it's worth, I replied to your post in the original thread.
EvC Forum: Existence of Demons (and Angels)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Trump won, posted 04-24-2005 1:01 PM Trump won has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 10 of 31 (201730)
04-24-2005 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Trump won
04-24-2005 1:01 PM


Chris, as posted there was no logic, only assertion. That's what folk have been telling you.
Go back and see if you can list the ways you'd support your assertion. If you can't figure them out well enough to place in an OP, then can you really believe the assertion?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Trump won, posted 04-24-2005 1:01 PM Trump won has not replied

coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 11 of 31 (201733)
04-24-2005 1:08 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Trump won
04-24-2005 1:01 PM


chris writes:
I guess you're right. Not everyone can see the same logic.
Stop using the word "logic", damn it!!! Go take several college level logic courses before claiming yourself master of logic.
I've been working with grade school level kids for years and I think you're the only kid that ever irritate me this much.
Added by edit.
However, for the remote possibility that you actually know what logic really means, tell me this. What does modus tollens mean and how does it work? If A, then B. Not A, therefore not B. What fallacy did I just commit or what's wrong with the statement?
This message has been edited by Troy, 04-24-2005 12:17 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Trump won, posted 04-24-2005 1:01 PM Trump won has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by AdminJar, posted 04-24-2005 1:11 PM coffee_addict has not replied
 Message 13 by Trump won, posted 04-24-2005 1:16 PM coffee_addict has replied

AdminJar
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 31 (201735)
04-24-2005 1:11 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by coffee_addict
04-24-2005 1:08 PM


Knock it off
That is an unwarranted post. It did nothing to advance the conversation.
Go take a pill and lie down for a while. Stop berating other posters.

New Members should start HERE to get an understanding of what makes great posts.
Comments on moderation procedures (or wish to respond to admin messages)? - Go to:
General discussion of moderation procedures
Thread Reopen Requests
Considerations of topic promotions from the "Proposed New Topics" forum
Other useful links:
Forum Guidelines, Style Guides for EvC and Assistance w/ Forum Formatting

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by coffee_addict, posted 04-24-2005 1:08 PM coffee_addict has not replied

Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1239 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 13 of 31 (201738)
04-24-2005 1:16 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by coffee_addict
04-24-2005 1:08 PM


quote:
Go take several college level logic courses before claiming yourself master of logic.
i never said I was a master of logic. I personally don't think it's necessary for my faith. I don't see why I should have to take a class to understand what logic is. I think you use your age zagainst me because I'm not in college yet. I think I could have a discussion with the best of them. I've come to realizations that take most ppl there whole lives to discover. My mind is thinking at another level then what is expected of my current role in society. With all of the college classes you've taken you're still just as inappropiate as you've ever been. You have a personal grudge against me and I don't know why. Maybe it's because you lost your faith years ago and I still have mine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by coffee_addict, posted 04-24-2005 1:08 PM coffee_addict has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by coffee_addict, posted 04-24-2005 1:18 PM Trump won has replied

coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 14 of 31 (201739)
04-24-2005 1:18 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Trump won
04-24-2005 1:16 PM


Ok, I apologize for the previous post.
What does modus tollens mean and how does it work? It's not a personal grudge. It's your "I know all" attitude that hasn't gone away after all these years.
This message has been edited by Troy, 04-24-2005 12:19 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Trump won, posted 04-24-2005 1:16 PM Trump won has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Trump won, posted 04-24-2005 1:22 PM coffee_addict has replied

Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1239 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 15 of 31 (201742)
04-24-2005 1:22 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by coffee_addict
04-24-2005 1:18 PM


I don't deal with mathematical logic. The p->q stuff. Ib could do a math problem but I don't think thAT WARRANTS intelligence

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by coffee_addict, posted 04-24-2005 1:18 PM coffee_addict has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by coffee_addict, posted 04-24-2005 1:24 PM Trump won has replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024