Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,806 Year: 3,063/9,624 Month: 908/1,588 Week: 91/223 Day: 2/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   A Brief Survey of Entheogenic Foods and Their Possible Roles in Human Evolution
Stormdancer
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 15 (77756)
01-11-2004 1:16 PM


http://www.bluehoney.org/Food.htm
Are there any thoughts on this subject?
[This message has been edited by Stormdancer, 01-11-2004]

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by zephyr, posted 01-12-2004 3:25 PM Stormdancer has replied
 Message 8 by root, posted 02-28-2004 5:57 AM Stormdancer has replied

  
zephyr
Member (Idle past 4549 days)
Posts: 821
From: FOB Taji, Iraq
Joined: 04-22-2003


Message 2 of 15 (78059)
01-12-2004 3:25 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Stormdancer
01-11-2004 1:16 PM


Here's my first: by what mechanism has anybody proposed that the acquired effects (temporary and/or permanent) of the substances in question could be inherited by the offspring of those who ingested them? If such a hypothesis could be supported, I know a guy named Lamarck who would be really happy, wherever he may be.
I don't question the possible benefits of various, erm, "foods," but in order to affect evolution, they would have to affect the genetic transmission of traits to offspring in some way that improved their reproductive success.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Stormdancer, posted 01-11-2004 1:16 PM Stormdancer has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Stormdancer, posted 01-13-2004 7:54 AM zephyr has not replied

  
Stormdancer
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 15 (78172)
01-13-2004 7:54 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by zephyr
01-12-2004 3:25 PM


HI Zephyr.......
Ezekiel Ezekiel saw a wheel a-rolling,
Away in the middle of the air.
A wheel within a wheel a-rolling,
Away in the middle of the air.
And the big wheel ran by faith,
And the little wheel ran by the grace of God,
middle of the air. Also:
Ezekiel saw a bell a-ringing
Ezekiel saw a light a-shining
Ezekiel saw a fire a-burning
Ezekiel saw a boy a-growing EZEKIEL SAW THE WHEEL A-ROLLING When Ezekiel saw the wheel-a-rolling
the great big wheel-a-turning over
Ezekiel saw the wheel-a-rolling
way in the middle of the earth. Well great God of mine, I declare
Ezekiel saw the wheel in the middle of the air
the great big wheel and the little big wheel
the wheel turned over in the middle of the wheel
the good book says and the book don't lie
God told Ezekiel to prophesy
And my God spoke in Ezekiel's mind
he raised his voice and begin to cry
He cried:
Old bones old bones are walking
Great God showed me, old bones are talking. Old bones bones won't you hear me now
old bones do hear the word of God. Ezekiel... Well God told Ezekiel to prophesy
he tried to do it and that's no lie
God sent the wind from the West and the East
Spirits shook him from his head to his feet.
He cried:
Old bones old bones are walking
Great God showed me, old bones are talking. Old bones bones won't you hear me now
old bones do hear the word of God. Ezekiel... Well, old 'zekiel tried his best to do
the thing the Lord had told him to
he did his best that's all he can
after all Ziek was a natural man. Ezekiel...
Now tell me he wasn't stoned............LOL........
http://www.bluehoney.org/Manna.htm
Once upon a time I went to the library, and I found this interesting book, called , 'The Sacred Mushroom And The Cross'........I never could get past the question, could this guy really be onto something?
More later
[This message has been edited by Stormdancer, 01-13-2004]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by zephyr, posted 01-12-2004 3:25 PM zephyr has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Stormdancer, posted 01-13-2004 8:35 AM Stormdancer has replied

  
Stormdancer
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 15 (78175)
01-13-2004 8:35 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Stormdancer
01-13-2004 7:54 AM


This 13th Century Fresco from France shows the Amanita muscaria as the "fruit" (of the Tree) of the "knowledge of Good and Evil". Adam and Eve had their eyes opened. The Gods looked down and said "Behold, they have become as one of us".
Forbidden
I don't think I am posting the subject matter under the right topic, perhaps? yes?
[This message has been edited by Stormdancer, 01-13-2004]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Stormdancer, posted 01-13-2004 7:54 AM Stormdancer has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Stormdancer, posted 01-13-2004 11:52 AM Stormdancer has not replied

  
Stormdancer
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 15 (78209)
01-13-2004 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Stormdancer
01-13-2004 8:35 AM


The topic is "human origins", and I was more or less wanting to discuss mankind evolution of a spiritual nature such as the possibility of shamanistic rituals evolving into religious beliefs that have filtered down even to this day.
For instance did Christianity evolve within the context of Judaic and Hellenistic healing cults, magic, shamanism?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Stormdancer, posted 01-13-2004 8:35 AM Stormdancer has not replied

  
Stormdancer
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 15 (78213)
01-13-2004 12:33 PM


The shaman tree/Tree of life?
http://haldjas.folklore.ee/folklore/vol2/pics/hpix.htm
The shaman tree/Tree of life?
The term ayahuasca comes from the Quechua, meaning literally "the vine of souls," although it is also called "the visionary vine" or the "vine of death."
Vine/Tree of knowledge of good and evil.......if thou partake thou shall die?/ vine of death?
John the Baptist would also enter into this form of ecstasy, often given to fits before predicating Biblical events. One of his most famous prophecies was foretelling the coming of Christ.
IN the Judeo-Christian tradition, the desert has always been regarded as a powerful place , one of Johns favorite haunts .
The day of Pentecost
"For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. But
this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved."
my Spirit upon all flesh,
1. Soma (Hindu plant God)
2. Amrita (Buddhist Magical Sacrament)
3. Ambrosia (Greek Food of the Gods)
4. The Holy Grail
5. Fruit of the Tree of life
6. The Golden Fleece
7. The Fountain of Youth
8. Haoma (Islamic Sacrament..
9. Manna
10. Bread of Life
11. Fountain of living Waters
12. Hidden Manna
13. The Cosmic Egg
14. The Prima Materia
15. The Water of Life
16. The Flesh of the God
17. The Fruit of Knowledge
18. The Flesh of Jesus

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Stormdancer, posted 01-13-2004 12:52 PM Stormdancer has not replied

  
Stormdancer
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 15 (78217)
01-13-2004 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Stormdancer
01-13-2004 12:33 PM


Re: The shaman tree/Tree of life?
The blue water lily was sacred to the ancient Egyptians. The god of the blue water lily was Nefertem, Lord of Perfume. The flowers were not only noted for their delightful perfume by the Egyptians but also for bringing euphoria, heightened awareness and tranquility. Many historians thought it was a purely symbolic flower, but there are some reason to believe that ancient Egyptians used it to induce an ecstatic state, stimulation, and/or hallucinations.
Monarchs and priests of ancient Egypt used this plant as a narcotic both for its healing qualities and as a recreational drug (soaked in wine). Probably it contains aporphine and a substance called nuciferine, soluble in alcohol but not known to be psychoactive. People confirm effects as "euphoria with tranquilization." , like cannabis or codeine; a little hallucinatory at higher doses - but mainly hypnotic with a pretty good sedative, mild opiod or cannabis like feeling.
Amanita Holy Grail: Picture,
Amanita Muscaria Mushrooms and Religion - Research Page
http://people.etnoteam.it/maiocchi/fabbro.htm ( Pictures)
Figure 1.
Plan of the northern hall of the ancient basilica of Aquileia with the mosaics of the first Christian church dating back to a period before 330 A.D. The arrow and circle show the location of the two baskets containing mushrooms and snails.
Figure 2.
Part of the Aquileian mosaic showing the basket with mushrooms.There are at least eight exemplars with dark red caps and typical characteristics of the type Amanita muscaria. Since these mushrooms are contained in a basket some scholars [8] suggest that this is a hint for their use during ceremonies as edible substances and not as mere ornamental patterns.
Figure 3.
Part of the Aquileian mosaic showing the basket with snails, most probably of the type Helix (Helix) cincta. Also in this case the presence of a basket suggests that snails were eaten during religious ceremonies probably together with mushrooms.
RedTailCanyon.com is for sale | HugeDomains
Archaeological Area and the Patriarchal Basilica of Aquileia
[This message has been edited by Stormdancer, 01-13-2004]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Stormdancer, posted 01-13-2004 12:33 PM Stormdancer has not replied

  
root
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 15 (89221)
02-28-2004 5:57 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Stormdancer
01-11-2004 1:16 PM


Can't give you a title or page number but I remember reading some speculations by Terrence McKenna regarding the possible evolutionary advantages of eating small amounts of psychedellic mushrooms. He claimed that in small doses psyllocin and/or psilocybin could improve eyesight and concentration which would of course be useful for early hunters. Of course none of the effects of the mushrooms would be passed on to offspring but one could speculate that a tribe with a tendancy to experiment with mind altering substances might have an advantage over one that stayed away from such things. It seems a little far-fetched to me. I don't know how such tendencies would translate into instincts and DNA but it seems to be commonly accepted that they do. I would be more likely to guess that the advantages came from psychic abilities which are still not well understood. BTW I'm a newbie here, hi everybody.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Stormdancer, posted 01-11-2004 1:16 PM Stormdancer has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Stormdancer, posted 02-28-2004 2:51 PM root has not replied

  
Stormdancer
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 15 (89271)
02-28-2004 2:51 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by root
02-28-2004 5:57 AM


HI and welcome Root,
I have that book.
I am still looking for more info on this subject I recently found out that some cultures used snake venom and I wondered if this could have a connection to goddess cults and their association with snakes.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by root, posted 02-28-2004 5:57 AM root has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by godsmac, posted 02-29-2004 12:17 AM Stormdancer has replied

  
godsmac
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 15 (89347)
02-29-2004 12:17 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Stormdancer
02-28-2004 2:51 PM


Everything you're talking about here is in the context of physically modern humans, right?
If that's the case, then it's more likely that these are cultural events and not biological evolution. That is, taking a little peyote may have been an advantage to early hunters, so it became a cultural advantage to use peyote before a hunt. That cultural group would have had an 'evolutionary' advantage over other physically identical groups of humans, because it made them more successful in the hunt and they survived in hard times when the game was scarce. But it didn't cause any physical changes that could be passed to future generations. It was all just in their learned behavior (culture). So, in effect it was cultural versus biological evolution.
Eventually the practice 'evolved' into something religious. Is this the idea you're getting at? It's interesting.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Stormdancer, posted 02-28-2004 2:51 PM Stormdancer has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Stormdancer, posted 02-29-2004 4:22 PM godsmac has not replied

  
Stormdancer
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 15 (89431)
02-29-2004 4:22 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by godsmac
02-29-2004 12:17 AM


Yes Godsmac thats what I see, it evolved into religion, of course there were many factors, but I do wonder how much of a role this played.
.........
Give Me That Old-Time Religion?
Storage and processing are not the only avenues of food contamination: Raw shellfish raised in contaminated water can harbor extremely toxic organisms, and unpasteurized milk from infected cows can cause tuberculosis and undulant fever. Great strides have been made in developed countries toward eliminating infected milk cattle.
Plant-related toxins include ergotic alkaloids, aflatoxin, and hydrogen cyanide. Throughout European history, long cold and rainy periods have coincided with outbreaks of ergotism, a disease caused by toxins from the fungus Calviceps purpurea. This fungus infects grain of all kinds, but its chief target is rye, on which it forms purple masses called "sclerotia." These sclerotia contain several alkaloids that are related chemically to the hallucinogenic compound LSD. The dreadful cycle of infection occurred repeatedly throughout the Middle Ages; its effects were always "explained" by religion. Crops were blighted; women and livestock aborted. Individuals even whole populations suffered such symptoms as burning in the extremities, convulsions, and hallucinations. In France alone, tens of thousands of people convulsed to death. Some sufferers made pilgrimages to the shrine of St. Anthony and reportedly obtained relief. Hence the disease became known as Saint Anthony's fire. (The dietary absence of ergot at the shrine's locale may have contributed to the pilgrims' relief.)
Medieval churchgoers held that witchcraft was the cause of Saint Anthony's fire,* most cases of which were probably due to ergotic toxins. A guide for spotting, capturing, and persecuting witches Malleus Maleficarum (The Hammer of the Witches) first published circa 1484 in Germany, influenced church inquisitors to torture thousands of people to death. The authors of the Malleus Maleficarum Dominican inquisitors Jakob Sprenger and Heinrich Institoris (also known as Henry Kramer) had a reputation for brutalizing their "interviewees," and it seems certain that they had written the "witch hunter's textbook" to defend their extreme methods. Needless to say, neither the book nor the inquisitorial pursuits it "justified" suggested any effective preventive for ergotism such as separating sclerotia from infected grain by floating the grain in a 30-percent potassium chloride solution.
Aflatoxin poisoning,

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by godsmac, posted 02-29-2004 12:17 AM godsmac has not replied

  
Stormdancer
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 15 (89433)
02-29-2004 4:34 PM


Plants were first feared and then worshiped because of the
intoxicating liquors which were derived therefrom.
Primitive man believed that intoxication rendered one
divine.
There was supposed to be something unusual and sacred about such an experience.
Even in modern times alcohol is known as "spirits."
Early man looked upon sprouting grain with dread and superstitious awe. The Apostle Paul was not the first to draw profound spiritual lessons from, and predicate religious beliefs on, the sprouting grain.
What grain makes.......... LSD?
HOLY Wheat batman this just crossed my mind!!!!! LOL
,
LSD is manufactured from lysergic acid, which is found in ergot, a fungus that grows on rye and other
grains. http://www.drugeducation.net/LSD.htm
DIVINATION
Snakes are associated with divination throughout the world.
The Greeks kept oracular snakes at temples;
the Arcadian word for priest literally meant 'snake charmer'.
According to Philostratus the Arabs understood divine omens, particularly through the sound of birds, because they had eaten the hearts or livers of a serpent.
Both Arabs and Hebrews derive their word for magic from the word for serpent.
Worship of the serpent goddess was widespread in pre-dynastic northern Egypt.
The asp had the title of uzait, meaning 'the eye' for its Otherworld sight and wisdom.
The goddesses Hathor and Maat were both called 'the eye'. The uraeus head dress, worn by the pharaohs, symbolically gave the wearer the power of the third eye.
The snake was meant to strike at any enemy coming into the presence of the ruler. All Egyptians queens were given the title of 'Serpent of the Nile'.
The Indigenes of America, on occasion, chose a warrior to undergo the ordeal of allowing a snake to bite him several times during a sacred dance.
If he survived he was considered to have gained great wisdom and insight into the workings of the cosmos.
This is typical of the trials of shamanic initiation.
Interestingly it has been demonstrated that a person immunised against snake bite of a krait or cobra, then bitten by it, has vivid hallucinations.
Perhaps the sacred snakes kept at the temples were actually used to induce vision states.
Many so called 'serpent plants' [plants given the title of 'serpent' or 'snake' for their ability to alter consciousness] have been used shamanically to bring about trance states and engender Otherworld journeys, including several mushrooms.The Druids used snake stones, said to be formed by adders breathing on hazel wands, for healing and divination.http://www.geocities.com/annafranklin1/snake.html
In another myth, the sun-god, Ra, suffered a snake bite and is offered to cure him in exchange for him telling her "his secret name". Ra told her this and she then became known as, "mistress of the gods who knows Ra by his own name". She gave Horus this information allowing him to obtain great powers. http://kingsroyalimports.safeshopper.com/26/227.htm?753
Another one of Isis' many great powers, was her skill as a magician. One of her more impressive feats was her creation of the first cobra
The cobra bit Re, and caused him great pain in which he had never experienced. He was very confused since he had created all that exists, since he knew that whatever had bitten him was not a creation of his own. He cried out, "Something has hurt me, and I do not know what it is. I created all things, yet this thing I did not make.
Isis' sacred animal is the cow, and we all know what grows in cow pastures. " Mushrooms"
Inanna and Civilization
This is the tale the Sumerians told on how civilization had come the
the ancient Near East:Across the immeasurable distances of the sweetwater abyss lived
Enki, god of wisdom, and with him were the Tablets of Destiny and other magic civilizing implements. These were his treasures, and he kept them from humankind. But his daughter, the crafty queen of heaven, took pity on the miserable primitives of earth and fitted her boat to travel to her father's hall.
There she was grandly welcomed with a banquet of food and wine. Wise he may have been, but Enki loved his daughter beyond wisdom, so much that he took cup after
cup from her at table, and then, drunk, promised her anything she desired. Instantly Inanna asked for the Tablets of Destiny and 100 other objects of culture .
What could a fond father do but grant the request? Inanna immediately loaded the objects onto the boat of heaven and set sail for her city, Erech. Awakening the next day from his stupor, Enki remembered what he had done- and regretted it. But he was incapacitated by a hangover as massive as the previous evening's pleasure, and he could not pursue his daughter until he recovered. By then , of course, Inanna had gained the safety of her kingdom and even the seven tricks Enki played on her did not regain him his treasures.
Doesn't this remind you of,
this,
In another myth, the sun-god, Ra, suffered a snake bite and is offered to cure him in exchange for him telling her "his secret name". Ra told her this and she then became known as, "mistress of the gods who knows Ra by his own name". She gave Horus this information allowing him to obtain great powers.

  
Stormdancer
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 15 (89765)
03-02-2004 10:18 AM


Zoroaster
A little research into the Iranian counterpart of the Soma, the Haoma, also offers us some interesting insights.
Haoma consumption originated in Persia with the Mazdean priests who brought it with them in their ancient exodus from the Hindu-Kush Mountains. The Mazdean priests became popularly known as Magi, and around 500 BC their religious relationship with Haoma went under some renovations under the prophet Zoroaster.
Zoroastrian mythology has it that their prophet was conceived after his body came down to earth through heavenly rain, which brought forth plants which were consumed by cows belonging to the people selected to become his parents. The cows gave milk which was pressed with Haoma and drunk by the prophet's parents, who later conceived him while making love for the first time.
After the time of Zoroaster, the main holy plant became known as "bhanga," a term usually associated with cannabis. Whether this represented a change in substances or just in name alone is unknown.
The Zoroastrian holy book the Vendidad (The Law Against Demons), calls bhanga "Zoroaster's good narcotic."
Later Zoroastrian writings refer to Zoroaster's use of bhanga for shamanistic ecstasy and initiation. Zoroaster's wife Hvovi preys that the Supreme Being will "give her his good narcotic, bangha... that she might think according to the law, speak according to the law and do according to the law."
The Iranian faith of Zoroastrianism influenced the writers of the Bible in many important ways. Ideas such as Heaven and Hell, an afterlife, a coming Saviour, and even a final apocalypse, were all developed by Zoroastrian initiates, whose power of revelation came through consuming powerful drinks of bhang.
Ali Jafarey, who has been writing on the Zoroastrian religion for over 40 years, has written that "the mushroom seems to be far-fetched" as the original Soma. In an essay called Haoma: Its Original and Later Identity, he wrote that the commonly used modern ingredient for the Haoma ceremony, ephedra, is "void of all the qualities described in the Avesta and the Vedas."
"The description of the plant is that it was greenish in color," writes Jafarey, "grew on mountains well north of the Indus Valley, was traded by outsiders, had a special ritual to prepare, was an instant intoxicant prepared from pounding and extracting its juice, and that the Saka tribes of eastern Central Asia are called "haumavarka" (Haoma-gatherers) by Achaemenians; all point, in my opinion, to what is now known as Indian hemp."
The "Saka tribes" to which Jafarey refers are more popularly known as the Scythians. There are many ancient references to their use of cannabis for religious and social purposes, and numerous cannabis-related artifacts and even cannabis seeds have been discovered by modern archeologists at numerous Scythian burial sites (CC#02, The Scythians: high plains drifters).
Jafarey also wrote that the ancient Soma ceremony "resembles the present practice of solemnly pounding... extracting and straining [cannabis] juice, and mixing it with water, milk, poppy seeds, and almonds by Sufis, Faqirs, Pirs, Sadhus, and other Muslim and Hindu mystics of certain orders and circles in Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and India, particularly those connected with shrines and holy places.
The drink is called "dgh-e vahdat" (unity milk) by Iranian mystics and "thdal" (cooling, refreshing) by Sindhi Sufis."
Just a moment...
[This message has been edited by Stormdancer, 03-02-2004]

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by SDancer, posted 02-03-2005 11:34 AM Stormdancer has not replied

  
SDancer
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 15 (182868)
02-03-2005 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Stormdancer
03-02-2004 10:18 AM


http://vlib.anthrotech.com/bin/jump.cgi?ID=2798
Entoptic Imagery in People and Their Art

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Stormdancer, posted 03-02-2004 10:18 AM Stormdancer has not replied

  
SDancer
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 15 (182896)
02-03-2005 1:50 PM


Chumash Rock Paintings
Chumash Rock Paintings
among the most elaborate and colorful in the world!
Page Not Found - Santa Barbara Museum of Natural History
Dating these paintings is difficult to do without damaging the work itself, but it is estimated that they were completed within the last 1,000 to 2,000 years.
http://alumnus.caltech.edu/~randysal/chumash.html
I will try this again,
NO REDIRECT
Entoptic Imagery in People and Their Art
http://www.goldenass.thestoryonline.com/...l.20_archive%2002
A Cartography of the Ecstatic and Meditative States
Roland Fischer
http://www.entheology.org/edoto/anmviewer.asp?a=152&z=1
drugs of vegetable origin as present in the Assurbarupal tablature.
plants include almond (oil), asafoetida, calendula, chamomile, ergot, fennel, henbane, myrrh, liquorice, lupine, mandrake, opium poppy, pomegranate, saffron, and turmeric. Cannabis, which figures prominently in healing in China and India, also would have been a major element of barter along the early trade routes leading into and out of Assyria.

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024