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Author Topic:   the evolution of clothes?
idontknowagoodname
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 161 (173169)
01-02-2005 8:56 PM


Hey,
This is my first post. I am a yec, and 15 at that. Yes I know, shame on me, or as some evolutionists would say, I'm too young to recognize my ignorance. In either case, all I know about evolution is through what I have read in numerous books, and I have never come across anything that discusses: why some animal decided to wear clothes/at what point. If anybody would care to fill me in, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks.

Replies to this message:
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 Message 6 by Shaz, posted 01-02-2005 11:37 PM idontknowagoodname has not replied
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 Message 12 by Quetzal, posted 01-03-2005 9:05 AM idontknowagoodname has not replied
 Message 145 by Antihero, posted 01-28-2005 8:45 PM idontknowagoodname has not replied

AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 2 of 161 (173175)
01-02-2005 9:11 PM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

Cthulhu
Member (Idle past 5851 days)
Posts: 273
From: Roe Dyelin
Joined: 09-09-2003


Message 3 of 161 (173178)
01-02-2005 9:15 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by idontknowagoodname
01-02-2005 8:56 PM


Temperature regulation. When you don't have much hair, you've got to insulate yourself somehow.

Proudly attempting to Google-Bomb Kent "The Lying Dumbass" Hovind's website
Lying Dumbass

This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 4 of 161 (173179)
01-02-2005 9:15 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by idontknowagoodname
01-02-2005 8:56 PM


'Cause it be cold.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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PerfectDeath
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 161 (173189)
01-02-2005 10:10 PM


well it's not like humans are very hairy... so when you kill an animal the hair doesn't go down right. so lets say in search for food you travel north were it gets cold so you wonder "hmmm that deer over there isn't cold... lets kill him and wear his fur."
and sure enough it keeps you warm.
but i doupt evolutionists will say to you that you are arrogant and young for your belifes... thouse who share your faith will tell you that you should not enter this dark alley of the internet... molesters they hide everywere.
>_>
<_<
but i thought i was young comming here at the age of 17... meh my frontal lobe has developed enough to fight the scary rapists.

Shaz
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 161 (173206)
01-02-2005 11:37 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by idontknowagoodname
01-02-2005 8:56 PM


Hi I dontknowagoodname.
I believe it stemmed from the fact that food was something that one had to find or slay to survive. As a result, every part of the animal was put to use. By maximising the potential of a carcass, native man probably didnt have to go hunting for food so often. Every tried slaying a mammoth?
Anyway, in drying hides, one possibly stumbled upon the ability to also use that hide to increase warmth, and then in all probability it followed from there much like the same as all things have developed. An initial concept, that is then built on continually.
Shaz

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PerfectDeath
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 161 (173217)
01-03-2005 12:10 AM


also it was probably handy for males to wear as underwear so it didn't flap around so much... that and they could curcumsize so it would stay clean

arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 8 of 161 (173242)
01-03-2005 2:02 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by idontknowagoodname
01-02-2005 8:56 PM


not sure if i can do this without referencing eden metaphorically.
man's great evolutionary advantage is technology. instead of adapting biologically, we began to be able to adapt with our creations. clothing is one such technology, that helped people survive.

This message is a reply to:
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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 476 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 9 of 161 (173246)
01-03-2005 2:15 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by idontknowagoodname
01-02-2005 8:56 PM


Because man's ancestors came from the regions African plains where it was warm and nice. Once some of them started wandering into places where there were winters, it became necessary to insulate with animal skin.
Now the question of why we became "ashamed" of our nakedness is a whole other issue. Perhaps EvC's sociologists could fill us on this one.

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 10 of 161 (173251)
01-03-2005 2:21 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by coffee_addict
01-03-2005 2:15 AM


Now the question of why we became "ashamed" of our nakedness is a whole other issue.
Same reason - it's cold outside. If clothes are necessary for survival, then societies evolve to make sure that their members wear the requisite clothing.
The specifics are, of course, cultural. Obviously, not every culture agrees what one should be "ashamed" of not covering up.

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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 11 of 161 (173271)
01-03-2005 3:19 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by coffee_addict
01-03-2005 2:15 AM


Now the question of why we became "ashamed" of our nakedness is a whole other issue. Perhaps EvC's sociologists could fill us on this one.
coldness = shrinkage = shame.
i bet you'll find that even still women are more prone to nudity than men.
on a serious note, the story is an etiology on why, written after the fact, and since the story has to do with awareness, so would the reason for wearing clothing.

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Replies to this message:
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Quetzal
Member (Idle past 5871 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 12 of 161 (173366)
01-03-2005 9:05 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by idontknowagoodname
01-02-2005 8:56 PM


C'mon everyone. Give the guy a realistic answer: We have (and can have IMO) absolutely no clue how the wearing of clothing evolved. There is simply no way beyond speculation how to derive a testable hypothesis here. We don't even have much in the way of analogies using other organisms to base our speculations on. There's good reason why humans started wearing them - once we got "out of Africa", it was clothe or die. Beyond that, we have no way of knowing.
Pretending to information we don't have is likely to reinforce the YEC view that we're making the whole thing up.

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nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 13 of 161 (173403)
01-03-2005 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by arachnophilia
01-03-2005 3:19 AM


quote:
i bet you'll find that even still women are more prone to nudity than men.
I suspect that this depends upon culture. I wonder if the cultures that glorified the male form as the ultimate in human beauty (like ancient Rome and Greece) experienced more male than female nudity?
Currently, female bodies are strongly considered more beautiful than male bodies, and thus women are more conscious of their bodies being observed and evaluated for physical beauty by the entire culture.
...at least, certain, narrowly-defined forms of the female body are considered beautiful.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 476 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 14 of 161 (173453)
01-03-2005 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Quetzal
01-03-2005 9:05 AM


Quetzal writes:
Pretending to information we don't have is likely to reinforce the YEC view that we're making the whole thing up.
Not necessarily. Colder areas = more clothes. Warmer areas = less clothes. Here, we have the basis for educated guesses. It's a heck of a lot better than blind guesses made by YECs.

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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 476 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 15 of 161 (173456)
01-03-2005 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by crashfrog
01-03-2005 2:21 AM


I once read a book called The Naked Ape by some guy when I was like 15. Can't remember any detail from it. All I remember about this is that the guy presented a theory on why the naked ape began to cover up his sex organ. Apparently, by walking upright, it is impossible not to show your genitals, and this was intimidating within a primitive society.

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