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Author Topic:   A gang of outlaws at the helms
John 10:10
Member (Idle past 3022 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 1 of 52 (533237)
10-29-2009 1:11 PM


Alexander's Essay — October 29, 2009
'Nobody Questions That'?
quote:
Put simply, there is no authority for a "constitutional rewrite" by Barack Hussein Obama, nor Nancy Pelosi, nor Steny Hoyer, nor any like-minded revisionists. Such contempt for our Constitution, such willful violation of their sacred oaths is a disgrace to the selfless dignity of generations of Patriots before them.
At present, we have a gang of outlaws at the helms of the executive and legislative branches. Under such despots, we are being unlawfully taxed without lawful representation. Sound familiar?
Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus et Fidelis!
Mark Alexander
Publisher, PatriotPost.US
Edited by AdminModulous, : content hidden, source url corrected.

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by CosmicChimp, posted 10-29-2009 1:32 PM John 10:10 has not replied
 Message 4 by Granny Magda, posted 10-29-2009 1:52 PM John 10:10 has not replied
 Message 5 by AdminModulous, posted 10-29-2009 3:14 PM John 10:10 has not replied
 Message 15 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-30-2009 2:21 PM John 10:10 has not replied

  
CosmicChimp
Member
Posts: 311
From: Muenchen Bayern Deutschland
Joined: 06-15-2007


(1)
Message 2 of 52 (533240)
10-29-2009 1:32 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by John 10:10
10-29-2009 1:11 PM


Your url link is messed up.
Mark Alexander: 'Nobody Questions That'? | The Patriot Post
Maybe that one functions...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by John 10:10, posted 10-29-2009 1:11 PM John 10:10 has not replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4042
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 7.7


(1)
Message 3 of 52 (533243)
10-29-2009 1:47 PM


I find it remarkably amusing that, in an essay that purports to take the Obama administration to task for supposed violations of the Constitution...
...it doesn;t once quote the Constitution itself.
This is nothing more than the usual tea-party lunatic rightwing nonsense.
If you want to call Obama out for violating the Constitution, then focus on the right to a speedy trial by a jury of your peers. That right continues to be violated for the Gitmo detainees.
Oh, wait - rightwing nutjobs won't criticize that, because Bush started it.
The comments in this "essay" (a more accurate term would be "raving lunatic rant") carried to full effect would abolish the FBI, CIA, FDA, FCC, and basically every other Federal agency, since they're not included in the Constitution either.
Clearly, making national laws regarding the regulation of food and medicine is an abuse of Federal power.

  
Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 3.8


(1)
Message 4 of 52 (533246)
10-29-2009 1:52 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by John 10:10
10-29-2009 1:11 PM


Hefty Cut and Paste
So, John 10:10, is your real name Mark Alexander or are you simply lifting a huge cut 'n' paste and posting it without offering us a clue as to your own opinion of it?
Mutate and Survive

"A curious aspect of the theory of evolution is that everybody thinks he understands it." - Jacques Monod

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by John 10:10, posted 10-29-2009 1:11 PM John 10:10 has not replied

  
AdminModulous
Administrator
Posts: 897
Joined: 03-02-2006


(1)
Message 5 of 52 (533260)
10-29-2009 3:14 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by John 10:10
10-29-2009 1:11 PM


This isn't an aggregation service. Please don't simply post copy/pasted editorials of this length. Better would be to summarize the argument in your own words, lifted important quotes from the editorial and then asked for discussion about it.
I've hidden the contents so that you could go back and do that very thing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by John 10:10, posted 10-29-2009 1:11 PM John 10:10 has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22492
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 6 of 52 (533334)
10-30-2009 7:29 AM


Who is Mark Alexander
Mark M. Alexander is editor and publisher of the Patriot Post, described by itself as "The Web's Conservative Journal of Record". These are highly selected excerpts from the Patriot Post's webpage about Mark Alexander (The Patriot Post: America's News Digest):
Patriot Post writes:
Mark Alexander is a graduate of the National Defense University and a regular national security forum participant at the Air and Naval War Colleges. He has been an observer for Operation Red Flag and on the USS Ronald Reagan (CVN76) in support of Operation Enduring Freedom.
He is a Life Member of the Air Force Association, Naval Institute and Navy League, and their academic foundations. He is a Life Member of the National Rifle Association and a professional member of other military, intelligence and law enforcement associations.
His favorite hobbies are shooting and flying...He and his family reside in the mountains of the Great State of Tennessee.
I'd never heard of National Defense University before, so looking it up it turns out to be a graduate-level university. They do not offer undergraduate degrees, and Alexander doesn't mention any undergraduate university.
Mr. Alexander's skills seem to run to using innocent remarks to throw mud at things he doesn't like. I would feel dirty and sleezy if I tried to use Alexander's column as a basis for criticizing Obama. He's as much from Ann Colter territory as from Tennessee.
Because I'm a fiscal conservative and a social liberal I am frequently torn when choosing between candidates. Both sides have political assassins like Mark Alexander and Ann Colter, but the liberal assassins develop much less of a reputation for meanness because they can wax intellectual and their constituency will still understand them.
As we frequently see here, the battle between science and creationism is just one manifestation of the larger war between liberal and conservative philosophy, and in a larger sense, between rationalism and emotionalism, with both sides having a heaping measure of each. Liberals falsely believe that analytical answers are best and tend to ignore our long history of discovery of what works, while conservatives tend to stick with what they know and distrust the new. But all that aside, what we need is for both sides to abandon Colter-esque tactics and politics as usual.
But of course this will never happen. Political demogoguery, chicanery and hit men have been with us forever and will never go away. A backup strategy would be for people to simply ignore political nonsense, but that's never going to happen either. The human animal isn't going to change, and so the Mark Alexanders and the Ann Colters will be forever with us.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
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Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4042
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 7.7


(1)
Message 7 of 52 (533375)
10-30-2009 12:46 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Percy
10-30-2009 7:29 AM


Re: Who is Mark Alexander
Because I'm a fiscal conservative and a social liberal I am frequently torn when choosing between candidates. Both sides have political assassins like Mark Alexander and Ann Colter, but the liberal assassins develop much less of a reputation for meanness because they can wax intellectual and their constituency will still understand them.
The difference being that the liberals tend not to spout such verbal vomit as "convert them to Christianity and kill the rest" like Ann Coulter does, and don't get nearly as much exposure. The closest would likely be Michael Moore, and while his documentaries tend to be extremely biased, he's never to my knowledge proposed something like the eradication of an entire culture.
I don't think I can really clearly define myself as "liberal" or "conservative" even when dividing between social and economic issues. My goals are maximizing the reduction of net real harm to society while allowing as much individual freedom as possible. This means that I strongly support ideas like universal healthcare (which I consider on a level with public police or fire protection), and yet I deplore wasteful spending of public tax dollars. I'm extremely utilitarian - if a given program is successful in reducing net harm and improves the lives of citizens beyond the hardship of the taxes that support it, then I support funding it.
Bringing this back to the article, there are a few bits from the Constitution that definitely allow Federal or State level programs like universal healthcare:
quote:
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
It starts in the preamble. The purpose of the COnstitution is to ensure public prosperity and welfare. Libertarians like to rail against agencies like the FDA, proposed programs like unviersal healthcare, or generally any Federal-level program that is not a barebones military (sometimes taking the form of a public militia rather than a professional military). They frequently cite the preamble when making such arguments...completely ignoring the majority of what's written.
One of the most important segments is Article 5:
quote:
The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution,
Americans frequently view the COnstitution as some sort of divenely inspired document that must remain inviolate, and the Founding Fathers as the collective Voice of God.
Even the [i]founders/i knew that the Constitution isn't perfect, and that the needs of society will change over time. They weren't prophets, they weren't even geniuses. Remember, according to the Constitution originally, a black man was only 3/5 of a person, slavery was fine, and women couldn't vote. Super-Constitutional wingnuts like the author of the above article seem to want us to forget that. The Constitution is a living document - it can and has been changed. At its core, the Constitution is simply meant to minimize the possibility of tyranny (whether from a too-powerful executive or the oppression of minorities by the majority) while allowing as much flexibility as possible - including the flexibility to amend the document as needed as society changes.
Really, I don't even need to continue. The Constitution makes no law that would disallow universal healthcare or other such Federal programs. Again, if you want to accuse the Obama administration of Constitutional breaches, it would be far easier to focus on the denial of the Constitutional right to a speedy and fair trial before a jury of your peers to the Gitmo detainees - but the right wingnuts won't do that, because Bush started it and they supported it at the time.
Articles like this are just sour grapes. "My guy didn't win, whaaaaaa!" None of the arguments carry any weight - it's just a whiny rant from someone crying that their precious status quo may not be preserved.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Percy, posted 10-30-2009 7:29 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 8 of 52 (533380)
10-30-2009 1:22 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Percy
10-30-2009 7:29 AM


Why Libertarian
Because I'm a fiscal conservative and a social liberal I am frequently torn when choosing between candidates.
I feel your pain, as I generally could categorize myself in the same way. The Libertarian Party is fiscally conservative and socially liberal, which, as best I can tell, mimics the beliefs of the Founding Fathers vision for the United States.
People sometime's scoff and claim that voting for the 3rd party is "throwing away your vote because they can't win." But as long as we grudginly opt to a default vote or a lesser of two evils, we'll continually be stuck in a two-party system which is at least 50% at odds with our core ideologies.
That's just a friendly suggestion. Take away from it what you will.

"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." --John Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Percy, posted 10-30-2009 7:29 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Perdition, posted 10-30-2009 1:30 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
Perdition
Member (Idle past 3264 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


(1)
Message 9 of 52 (533381)
10-30-2009 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Hyroglyphx
10-30-2009 1:22 PM


Re: Why Libertarian
People sometime's scoff and claim that voting for the 3rd party is "throwing away your vote because they can't win." But as long as we grudginly opt to a default vote or a lesser of two evils, we'll continually be stuck in a two-party system which is at least 50% at odds with our core ideologies.
I feel your pain. I usually vote Democratic because they are closest to my ideologies, and with their inability to do much at all, they don't screw up as much as the lock-step republicans do. My feeling is, rather than trying to build up a new party to try and take on the two established parties we have, it makes more sense to try and change one of the parties to better reflect my ideals, and again, the democrats are closer to my ideals and are thus easier to change.
I used to post and regularly read DailyKos, and their goals are "more and better Democrats." We've got the "more" part, now it's time to start working on the "better." (And we've got a long way to go on that score)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-30-2009 1:22 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-30-2009 1:46 PM Perdition has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 10 of 52 (533382)
10-30-2009 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Rahvin
10-30-2009 12:46 PM


Re: Who is Mark Alexander
Libertarians like to rail against agencies like the FDA, proposed programs like unviersal healthcare, or generally any Federal-level program that is not a barebones military (sometimes taking the form of a public militia rather than a professional military). They frequently cite the preamble when making such arguments...completely ignoring the majority of what's written.
The Constitution was intended to be and laregly is considered a "living document," meaning that the buck doesn't stop with the Constitution itself. The Constitution is intended to be the basic template, and as you said, the Framers were aware that its relevance in that time may become irrelevant later.
It was carefully manufactured to give the right of the People power and to have their government serve and defend them.
That is a broad scope and no one could reasonably define every single intent the Framers had, but especially on things they had no idea would exist.
In fact the word "amend" literally means "to change," so it is definitely right to say that it is a living document not infallible piece of literature passed on by sage's and scribes.
That being said, it is certainly open to some broad interpretation. All parties attempt to utilize the Preamble in defense of their position, but that is disigenuous because it is completely non-specific. It's an ideal to strive for, not a codified law to adhere to.

"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." --John Adams

This message is a reply to:
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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 11 of 52 (533383)
10-30-2009 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Perdition
10-30-2009 1:30 PM


Re: Why Libertarian
I feel your pain. I usually vote Democratic because they are closest to my ideologies, and with their inability to do much at all, they don't screw up as much as the lock-step republicans do. My feeling is, rather than trying to build up a new party to try and take on the two established parties we have, it makes more sense to try and change one of the parties to better reflect my ideals, and again, the democrats are closer to my ideals and are thus easier to change.
I'm cynical of it because the Republican Party, for instance, has evolved so much over its tenure. The Republican Party of yesteryear would much more likely be modeled after today's Democrat Party.
It later synthesized in to a Party that politically and ideologically aligns with today's Libertarian Party. Barry "Mr. Conservative" Goldwater is one of the last like him. Ron Paul is another traditional Republican.
But then neoconservatives and the religious right came in and hijacked the party and it went to hell in a handbasket.
Then again, what purpose does it serve to even have identifiable "parties?" Aren't they on the base level devisive? For instance, if you are a democrat you would be much more likely to side with a democrat on the basis of them being a democrat! But Lieberman is a democrat who often sides with neo-conservative ideals and Ron Paul is a Republican who often sides with liberal ideals.
Isn't it even more patriotic to vote for someone on the basis of their beliefs, their morals, their resume, and their character rather than voting for partisan party ties?
Something to consider I would think.

"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." --John Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Perdition, posted 10-30-2009 1:30 PM Perdition has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 13 by Perdition, posted 10-30-2009 2:04 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2132 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 12 of 52 (533384)
10-30-2009 1:57 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Hyroglyphx
10-30-2009 1:46 PM


Re: Why Libertarian
Then again, what purpose does it serve to even have identifiable "parties?"
That goes back to tribalism, which seems to be a basic human trait.
Aren't they on the base level devisive?
That's what tribalism boils down to: us vs. them.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-30-2009 1:46 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

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Perdition
Member (Idle past 3264 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 13 of 52 (533386)
10-30-2009 2:04 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Hyroglyphx
10-30-2009 1:46 PM


Re: Why Libertarian
I'm cynical of it because the Republican Party, for instance, has evolved so much over its tenure. The Republican Party of yesteryear would much more likely be modeled after today's Democrat Party.
Very true, which just goes to show that parties can be changed if enough people strive to do so. The apparatus needed to get a fully functioning, national party is expensive and extensive. It's much more economical to nudge a party in the right direction than starting from all but scratch.
Then again, what purpose does it serve to even have identifiable "parties?" Aren't they on the base level devisive?
The Framers, and Thomas Jefferson in particular, didn't want parties at all. The sad truth is, however, that even with that as his ideal, he ended up leading the Federalists against the AntiFederalists just to get the Constitution ratified. Parties have been a part of our politics since the beginning of the country, sadly. I don't see any way to get rid of them now, so the best we can do is try to use what's there to our advantage.
But Lieberman is a democrat who often sides with neo-conservative ideals and Ron Paul is a Republican who often sides with liberal ideals.
Lieberman is not a Democrat, he lost the Democratic Primary and was "forced" to create his own party to get elected again. He caucuses with the Democrats, but I honestly don't expect him to last through the next election. As for Ron Paul, he's the best Republican I can name, but he's got some ideas that are a bit too anti-government for me.
Isn't it even more patriotic to vote for someone on the basis of their beliefs, their morals, their resume, and their character rather than voting for partisan party ties?
This sounds right, but it has a habit of ending up biting you in the ass. For example, there are groups with very defined goals, such as Emily's List and the NRA and such. These groups will rate candidates and incumbents as to how closely they align to their ideals, and will advocate for the person who is closest to them. However, if Emily's List advocates for a Republican, or the NRA advocates for a Democrat (though on a lesser scale than the previous example), they end up shooting themselves in the foot. If, by voting for a candidate that is close to their ideologies, but belongs to a party that is opposed to them, you end up giving a majority to that party, even if the person in particular shares your views, your issue will not come up, or will be heavily lobbied against by the party in power.
It's a sad fact, but the best thing to do is vote for the party that will take even a small step in the right direction, rather than vote for a candidate that may want to take a larger step, but belongs to a party that would rather go backwards. If you can get a majority that is willing to take a small step, you can pressure them to do more, or start working to replace the current official with another one who is closer to your ideology, but belongs to the party that is also closer to you. It's a long game, and we've got to remember that trying for short-term gains can end up with long-term losses.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-30-2009 1:46 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-30-2009 2:27 PM Perdition has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 52 (533389)
10-30-2009 2:14 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Coyote
10-30-2009 1:57 PM


Re: Why Libertarian
Seems so simple to avoid when we know the reasons for it, yet we keep doing it.
It's kind of like the anti-war mantra" give peace a chance." That's all fine and good on paper, but peace is reciprocal.

"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." --John Adams

This message is a reply to:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 311 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 15 of 52 (533390)
10-30-2009 2:21 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by John 10:10
10-29-2009 1:11 PM


Put simply, there is no authority for a "constitutional rewrite" by Barack Hussein Obama, nor Nancy Pelosi, nor Steny Hoyer ...
And that would be why they haven't changed a single word of the Constitution. Well, that and not particularly wanting to.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by John 10:10, posted 10-29-2009 1:11 PM John 10:10 has not replied

  
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