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Author Topic:   Unskilled and Unaware of it
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 1 of 11 (538851)
12-10-2009 9:53 PM


Unskilled and Unware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One's Own Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessment
Not exactly new article, but it shows studies to verify what I've been saying for years. Here are some graphs directly from the article.

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Percy
Member
Posts: 22388
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 2 of 11 (538866)
12-11-2009 7:06 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Taz
12-10-2009 9:53 PM


I found a couple things pretty interesting. First, in 3 out of the 4 studies, the bottom quartile's perceived ability was the least of all the quartiles. This means that though they thought their ability much better than it actually was, at least they recognized it wasn't as good as others.
But most interesting is that the perceived ability of those in the top quartile was below actual ability, showing that increased ability tends to make one more aware of one's limitations. This explains why we find the most tentative expressions coming from the most capable. Those with high ability know they're good, but they find it humbling as it apparently increases their awareness of how easy it is to go wrong.
The corollary, and your main point, I think, is that the most confident expressions come from the least capable, and this has unfortunate consequences when it comes up against human nature. People find confident expressions most appealing, and these studies tell us that people are most likely to follow the advice of the least capable.
This was illustrated on Seinfeld many times when one of the main characters, usually George or Kramer, would confidently give incredibly poor advice to someone that when followed invariably led to disaster.
--Percy

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Shtop
Junior Member (Idle past 2325 days)
Posts: 30
Joined: 07-19-2007


Message 3 of 11 (538869)
12-11-2009 8:13 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Taz
12-10-2009 9:53 PM


The "Dunning—Kruger effect"! I've heard of this before, but never quite knew the exact ins and outs. Thanks for posting.

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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 11 (538879)
12-11-2009 10:36 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Taz
12-10-2009 9:53 PM


Neat. I don't have time to read the article right now. But I was curious how they measured the perceived scores. How did they ask the participant what they thought there score was?

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Jon
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 11 (538909)
12-11-2009 1:16 PM


The Smell of a Fish
lol. Maybe most humans just tend to answer the 'how cocky are you?' question all the same. Or, for many reasons the tests might be inadequate in measuring abilities in the areas on which the test-takers believed they were originally having their abilities questioned. In other words, these results are suspect.
Jon
Edited by Jon, : No reason given.

[O]ur tiny half-kilogram rock just compeltely fucked up our starship. - Rahvin

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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 11 (538929)
12-11-2009 3:20 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Jon
12-11-2009 1:16 PM


Re: The Smell of a Fish
In other words, these results are suspect.
They seem alright to me.
I've noticed that people here who are very wrong tend to be very confident.
For me, I always scored in the 99th percentile on standardized tests that we took back in the day. But I never thought I was smarter than anybody else. Over the years though, I've been in groups of people faced with a problem and threw a thought out there for a solution and the group resonds with: "hot damn, where'd you come up with that, you're really smart." That's happened quite a few times now and I'm just now starting to believe them. But then I feel dirty for being cocky.

ABE:
quote:
Edited by Jon, 12bling11bling2009 12:16 PM: No reason given.
wtf?
Edited by Catholic Scientist, : see abe
Edited by Catholic Scientist, : No reason given.

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Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 7 of 11 (538944)
12-11-2009 5:21 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Jon
12-11-2009 1:16 PM


Re: The Smell of a Fish
Jon, what are you talking about? Those people were asked to evaluate themselves about their use of grammar. The test results were then compared to how they evaluated themselves.
Read the freakin' paper before you criticize.
Edited by Taz, : No reason given.

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Percy
Member
Posts: 22388
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 8 of 11 (538947)
12-11-2009 6:22 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Taz
12-11-2009 5:21 PM


Re: The Smell of a Fish
Taz writes:
Read the freakin' paper before you criticize.
But if Jon read the paper then he couldn't provide such a compelling illustration of what the studies show.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1404 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 9 of 11 (538950)
12-11-2009 6:34 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Taz
12-10-2009 9:53 PM


Lake Woebegone
This just shows that everyone thinks the live in Lake Woebegone, where every child is above average.
I remember thinking when shrubbia was "re-elected" just how much I had misunderestimated the average ability of people to make intelligent decisions.
This effect is obviously a large part of the problem with why incompetent people get elected.
Ah well.
Take your perceived ability, subtract 50% and triple the result ...
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Taz, posted 12-10-2009 9:53 PM Taz has not replied

  
AdminModulous
Administrator
Posts: 897
Joined: 03-02-2006


Message 10 of 11 (538989)
12-12-2009 5:37 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by New Cat's Eye
12-11-2009 3:20 PM


bling
quote:
Edited by Jon, 12bling11bling2009 12:16 PM: No reason given.
wtf?
You can edit your Date Separator in preferences to be anything you like
I can't answer 'why bling?', however.

This message is a reply to:
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caffeine
Member (Idle past 1024 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 11 of 11 (539222)
12-14-2009 5:31 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by Percy
12-11-2009 7:06 AM


Alternatively, those who performed best on the tests could simply be lying about their perceived abilities. They know full well their grammar / logical reasoning / whatever is up in the higher reaches, but knock a few points off when declaring their perceived abilties in a partly subconcious effort to avoid looking like an arrogant know-it-all. Nobody likes a braggart, and the better you are at anything the more self-effacing you can afford to be about it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Percy, posted 12-11-2009 7:06 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
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