Author
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Topic: Unskilled and Unaware of it
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Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: 07-18-2006
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Message 1 of 11 (538851)
12-10-2009 9:53 PM
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Unskilled and Unware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One's Own Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessment Not exactly new article, but it shows studies to verify what I've been saying for years. Here are some graphs directly from the article.
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Percy
Member Posts: 22388 From: New Hampshire Joined: 12-23-2000 Member Rating: 5.2
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Message 2 of 11 (538866)
12-11-2009 7:06 AM
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Reply to: Message 1 by Taz 12-10-2009 9:53 PM
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I found a couple things pretty interesting. First, in 3 out of the 4 studies, the bottom quartile's perceived ability was the least of all the quartiles. This means that though they thought their ability much better than it actually was, at least they recognized it wasn't as good as others. But most interesting is that the perceived ability of those in the top quartile was below actual ability, showing that increased ability tends to make one more aware of one's limitations. This explains why we find the most tentative expressions coming from the most capable. Those with high ability know they're good, but they find it humbling as it apparently increases their awareness of how easy it is to go wrong. The corollary, and your main point, I think, is that the most confident expressions come from the least capable, and this has unfortunate consequences when it comes up against human nature. People find confident expressions most appealing, and these studies tell us that people are most likely to follow the advice of the least capable. This was illustrated on Seinfeld many times when one of the main characters, usually George or Kramer, would confidently give incredibly poor advice to someone that when followed invariably led to disaster. --Percy
This message is a reply to: | | Message 1 by Taz, posted 12-10-2009 9:53 PM | | Taz has not replied |
Replies to this message: | | Message 11 by caffeine, posted 12-14-2009 5:31 AM | | Percy has seen this message but not replied |
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Shtop
Junior Member (Idle past 2325 days) Posts: 30 Joined: 07-19-2007
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Message 3 of 11 (538869)
12-11-2009 8:13 AM
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Reply to: Message 1 by Taz 12-10-2009 9:53 PM
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The "Dunning—Kruger effect"! I've heard of this before, but never quite knew the exact ins and outs. Thanks for posting.
This message is a reply to: | | Message 1 by Taz, posted 12-10-2009 9:53 PM | | Taz has not replied |
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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Message 4 of 11 (538879)
12-11-2009 10:36 AM
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Reply to: Message 1 by Taz 12-10-2009 9:53 PM
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Neat. I don't have time to read the article right now. But I was curious how they measured the perceived scores. How did they ask the participant what they thought there score was?
This message is a reply to: | | Message 1 by Taz, posted 12-10-2009 9:53 PM | | Taz has not replied |
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Jon
Inactive Member
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Message 5 of 11 (538909)
12-11-2009 1:16 PM
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The Smell of a Fish
lol. Maybe most humans just tend to answer the 'how cocky are you?' question all the same. Or, for many reasons the tests might be inadequate in measuring abilities in the areas on which the test-takers believed they were originally having their abilities questioned. In other words, these results are suspect. Jon Edited by Jon, : No reason given. [O]ur tiny half-kilogram rock just compeltely fucked up our starship. - Rahvin
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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Message 6 of 11 (538929)
12-11-2009 3:20 PM
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Reply to: Message 5 by Jon 12-11-2009 1:16 PM
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Re: The Smell of a Fish
In other words, these results are suspect. They seem alright to me. I've noticed that people here who are very wrong tend to be very confident. For me, I always scored in the 99th percentile on standardized tests that we took back in the day. But I never thought I was smarter than anybody else. Over the years though, I've been in groups of people faced with a problem and threw a thought out there for a solution and the group resonds with: "hot damn, where'd you come up with that, you're really smart." That's happened quite a few times now and I'm just now starting to believe them. But then I feel dirty for being cocky.
ABE:
quote: Edited by Jon, 12bling11bling2009 12:16 PM: No reason given.
wtf? Edited by Catholic Scientist, : see abe Edited by Catholic Scientist, : No reason given.
This message is a reply to: | | Message 5 by Jon, posted 12-11-2009 1:16 PM | | Jon has not replied |
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Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: 07-18-2006
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Message 7 of 11 (538944)
12-11-2009 5:21 PM
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Reply to: Message 5 by Jon 12-11-2009 1:16 PM
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Re: The Smell of a Fish
Jon, what are you talking about? Those people were asked to evaluate themselves about their use of grammar. The test results were then compared to how they evaluated themselves. Read the freakin' paper before you criticize. Edited by Taz, : No reason given.
This message is a reply to: | | Message 5 by Jon, posted 12-11-2009 1:16 PM | | Jon has not replied |
Replies to this message: | | Message 8 by Percy, posted 12-11-2009 6:22 PM | | Taz has not replied |
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Percy
Member Posts: 22388 From: New Hampshire Joined: 12-23-2000 Member Rating: 5.2
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Message 8 of 11 (538947)
12-11-2009 6:22 PM
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Reply to: Message 7 by Taz 12-11-2009 5:21 PM
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Re: The Smell of a Fish
Taz writes: Read the freakin' paper before you criticize. But if Jon read the paper then he couldn't provide such a compelling illustration of what the studies show. --Percy
This message is a reply to: | | Message 7 by Taz, posted 12-11-2009 5:21 PM | | Taz has not replied |
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1404 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: 03-14-2004
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Message 9 of 11 (538950)
12-11-2009 6:34 PM
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Reply to: Message 1 by Taz 12-10-2009 9:53 PM
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Lake Woebegone
This just shows that everyone thinks the live in Lake Woebegone, where every child is above average. I remember thinking when shrubbia was "re-elected" just how much I had misunderestimated the average ability of people to make intelligent decisions. This effect is obviously a large part of the problem with why incompetent people get elected. Ah well.
Take your perceived ability, subtract 50% and triple the result ... Enjoy.
This message is a reply to: | | Message 1 by Taz, posted 12-10-2009 9:53 PM | | Taz has not replied |
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AdminModulous
Administrator Posts: 897 Joined: 03-02-2006
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bling
quote: Edited by Jon, 12bling11bling2009 12:16 PM: No reason given.
wtf? You can edit your Date Separator in preferences to be anything you like I can't answer 'why bling?', however.
This message is a reply to: | | Message 6 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-11-2009 3:20 PM | | New Cat's Eye has not replied |
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caffeine
Member (Idle past 1024 days) Posts: 1800 From: Prague, Czech Republic Joined: 10-22-2008
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Message 11 of 11 (539222)
12-14-2009 5:31 AM
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Reply to: Message 2 by Percy 12-11-2009 7:06 AM
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Alternatively, those who performed best on the tests could simply be lying about their perceived abilities. They know full well their grammar / logical reasoning / whatever is up in the higher reaches, but knock a few points off when declaring their perceived abilties in a partly subconcious effort to avoid looking like an arrogant know-it-all. Nobody likes a braggart, and the better you are at anything the more self-effacing you can afford to be about it.
This message is a reply to: | | Message 2 by Percy, posted 12-11-2009 7:06 AM | | Percy has seen this message but not replied |
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