Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 86 (8914 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 06-25-2019 3:39 PM
29 online now:
AZPaul3, Hyroglyphx, JonF, PaulK, Percy (Admin), RAZD, Stile, Theodoric (8 members, 21 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: 4petdinos
Post Volume:
Total: 854,729 Year: 9,765/19,786 Month: 2,187/2,119 Week: 223/724 Day: 62/93 Hour: 2/6


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
1
23456
...
18NextFF
Author Topic:   Smelling The Coffee: 2010
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12441
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 1 of 270 (541166)
01-01-2010 7:11 AM


Many of you have heard the phrase, Wake Up And Smell The Coffee! This topic is about focusing a discussion on news, trends, and patterns that we as a nation and as individuals need to become aware of as we enter the new year, 2010. Specifically, what are some of the events happening throughout the world that we would do well to pay close attention to? What are some of the domestic problems that if left unsolved will only get worse and, in time, do as much as bring the country down?

I shall get the conversation started.

  • The National Debt. A few years ago, I had around five credit cards and found them creeping steadily higher. On paper, I had the ability and the means to continue paying them, but did not pay attention to the larger and larger percentage of interest and smaller and smaller percentage of principal that was getting paid. Soon, they overwhelmed me. The same will happen, I fear, with our national debt. Will the day come when every penny of taxes collected by the U.S. be used to pay only the interest payment on the growing debt? Will we as a country default?

  • The demographics of many Third World impoverished nations shows 50% of the population under the age of 16. Knowledge is increasing globally, and with knowledge comes a natural hunger and desperation to succeed. In contrast, the demographic population of the Western Nations is getting older, even as we struggle with higher and higher debt repayments. Will there be a tipping point? Will the monopoly of power that the Western Nations hold come tumbling down? Will terrorism ever go away? In order to fix the problem, must we be the ones to fix it? Can we fix it, given our own challenges?

  • Education is a necessity. Will we be able to convince the population that education...unbiased, logical and scientific education...is the only thing that will save our nation?

    Edited by Phat, : dropped global warming. Other threads address it already


    Replies to this message:
     Message 2 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-03-2010 10:44 AM Thugpreacha has not yet responded
     Message 28 by Buzsaw, posted 01-04-2010 9:53 AM Thugpreacha has responded
     Message 31 by Hyroglyphx, posted 01-04-2010 10:57 AM Thugpreacha has not yet responded
     Message 136 by Jaderis, posted 01-09-2010 10:15 AM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

      
  • Thugpreacha
    Member
    Posts: 12441
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.3


    Message 2 of 270 (541409)
    01-03-2010 10:44 AM
    Reply to: Message 1 by Thugpreacha
    01-01-2010 7:11 AM


    *Bump-a dump dump*
    Does anyone else have any predictions for what challenges we as a nation may face within the next ten years?
    This message is a reply to:
     Message 1 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-01-2010 7:11 AM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 3 by Parasomnium, posted 01-03-2010 11:13 AM Thugpreacha has responded

      
    Parasomnium
    Member (Idle past 868 days)
    Posts: 2191
    Joined: 07-15-2003


    Message 3 of 270 (541411)
    01-03-2010 11:13 AM
    Reply to: Message 2 by Thugpreacha
    01-03-2010 10:44 AM


    How about humanity as a whole?
    Phat,

    I think many of the problems that await us this century are no longer of just national importance. I think problems like climate change, food production, energy production, water management, worldwide demographics, to name a few, are things that we need to tackle on an international level.

    O, and I also think we need to get rid of religion, because it raises more problems than it solves. But I guess you would be inclined to disagree on that point.


    "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin.
    This message is a reply to:
     Message 2 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-03-2010 10:44 AM Thugpreacha has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 4 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-03-2010 12:44 PM Parasomnium has responded
     Message 5 by Buzsaw, posted 01-03-2010 12:53 PM Parasomnium has not yet responded

      
    Thugpreacha
    Member
    Posts: 12441
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.3


    Message 4 of 270 (541416)
    01-03-2010 12:44 PM
    Reply to: Message 3 by Parasomnium
    01-03-2010 11:13 AM


    Re: How about humanity as a whole?
    parasomnium writes:

    I think many of the problems that await us this century are no longer of just national importance. I think problems like climate change, food production, energy production, water management, worldwide demographics, to name a few, are things that we need to tackle on an international level.

    O, and I also think we need to get rid of religion, because it raises more problems than it solves. But I guess you would be inclined to disagree on that point.

    I think that religious fundamentalism is one of the chief reasons for international terrorism. And the only challenge regarding tackling problems on an international level is consensus. Is it possible?
    This message is a reply to:
     Message 3 by Parasomnium, posted 01-03-2010 11:13 AM Parasomnium has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 7 by Buzsaw, posted 01-03-2010 1:04 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded
     Message 11 by Parasomnium, posted 01-03-2010 4:35 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

      
    Buzsaw
    Inactive Member


    Message 5 of 270 (541419)
    01-03-2010 12:53 PM
    Reply to: Message 3 by Parasomnium
    01-03-2010 11:13 AM


    Re: How about humanity as a whole?
    Parasomnium writes:

    O, and I also think we need to get rid of religion, because it raises more problems than it solves. But I guess you would be inclined to disagree on that point.

    Hi Parasomnium. How do you propose we obliterate religion? Obviously debating it's merrits and promoting athiesm has failed to achieve your desire.


    BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
    The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
    This message is a reply to:
     Message 3 by Parasomnium, posted 01-03-2010 11:13 AM Parasomnium has not yet responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 6 by Legend, posted 01-03-2010 12:56 PM Buzsaw has responded
     Message 10 by Modulous, posted 01-03-2010 2:13 PM Buzsaw has responded

      
    Legend
    Member (Idle past 3178 days)
    Posts: 1226
    From: Wales, UK
    Joined: 05-07-2004


    Message 6 of 270 (541420)
    01-03-2010 12:56 PM
    Reply to: Message 5 by Buzsaw
    01-03-2010 12:53 PM


    Re: How about humanity as a whole?
    Buzsaw writes:

    How do you propose we obliterate religion?

    Education, education, education!!


    "We must respect the law, not let it blind us away from the basic principles of fairness, justice and freedom"
    This message is a reply to:
     Message 5 by Buzsaw, posted 01-03-2010 12:53 PM Buzsaw has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 8 by Buzsaw, posted 01-03-2010 1:15 PM Legend has responded

      
    Buzsaw
    Inactive Member


    Message 7 of 270 (541423)
    01-03-2010 1:04 PM
    Reply to: Message 4 by Thugpreacha
    01-03-2010 12:44 PM


    Re: How about humanity as a whole?
    Phat writes:

    I think that religious fundamentalism is one of the chief reasons for international terrorism. And the only challenge regarding tackling problems on an international level is consensus. Is it possible?

    Hi Phat. Surely you have enough knowledge and intelligence to know that is an unsupportable assertion. Tell it like it is. Islamic politico-religious fundamentalism is the one chief reason for international terrorism.

    Perhaps if you wish to support your foolish assumption you could cite evidence that Christian fundamentalism or even other non-Christian fundamentalists are the chief reason for international terrorism today on planet earth.


    BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
    The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
    This message is a reply to:
     Message 4 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-03-2010 12:44 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 13 by onifre, posted 01-03-2010 9:12 PM Buzsaw has responded

      
    Buzsaw
    Inactive Member


    Message 8 of 270 (541425)
    01-03-2010 1:15 PM
    Reply to: Message 6 by Legend
    01-03-2010 12:56 PM


    Re: How about humanity as a whole?
    Legend writes:

    Education, education, education!!

    Hi Legend. Ah. But thanks to athiest and secularistic agendas and policies, education is being increasingly restricted, allowing only secularistic ideology in the classrooms, with secularist education ever predominating. But alas, as since the recording of history began, milleniums ago, all human cultures remain religious. Must the human DNA be artificially altered in order to mutate out this universal religious preponderance?


    BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
    The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
    This message is a reply to:
     Message 6 by Legend, posted 01-03-2010 12:56 PM Legend has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 9 by Legend, posted 01-03-2010 1:48 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded
     Message 12 by Parasomnium, posted 01-03-2010 5:01 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

      
    Legend
    Member (Idle past 3178 days)
    Posts: 1226
    From: Wales, UK
    Joined: 05-07-2004


    (1)
    Message 9 of 270 (541427)
    01-03-2010 1:48 PM
    Reply to: Message 8 by Buzsaw
    01-03-2010 1:15 PM


    Re: How about humanity as a whole?
    Hi Buz,

    Buzzsaw writes:

    But thanks to athiest and secularistic agendas and policies, education is being increasingly restricted, allowing only secularistic ideology in the classrooms, with secularist education ever predominating.


    Education isn't about ideology, education is about presenting the facts and let the students decide for themselves. Unfortunately (for you), religion relies heavily on faith rather than facts so I can understand you objecting to the idea.

    Buzzsaw writes:

    But alas, as since the recording of history began, milleniums ago, all human cultures remain religious.


    They also remain murderous, hateful and otherwise violent. Reckon there's a connection there?

    Buzzsaw writes:

    Must the human DNA be artificially altered in order to mutate out this universal religious preponderance?


    If it was a DNA issue then my answer would have been: Biology, biology, biology! Fortunately it isn't a DNA issue, simply a question of opening up the human mind to eradicate fear, prejudice and superstition.


    "We must respect the law, not let it blind us away from the basic principles of fairness, justice and freedom"
    This message is a reply to:
     Message 8 by Buzsaw, posted 01-03-2010 1:15 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

      
    Modulous
    Member (Idle past 276 days)
    Posts: 7789
    From: Manchester, UK
    Joined: 05-01-2005


    Message 10 of 270 (541428)
    01-03-2010 2:13 PM
    Reply to: Message 5 by Buzsaw
    01-03-2010 12:53 PM


    Erosion of religion, the continuing 'clash' of cultures
    Hi Parasomnium. How do you propose we obliterate religion? Obviously debating it's merrits and promoting athiesm has failed to achieve your desire.

    Dennett has a slightly more acheivable short term goal, which is to try an reduce the number of toxic varieties of religious belief. This requires free (as in both open and at no cost) religious education. Toxic religions seem to thrive on enforced ignorance of other ideas.

    But the debating, the openly 'coming out' of philosophers, scientists, comedians, actors etc etc, does seem to be having an impact. We'll have to wait to see the results of the censuses before we can really see what the impact is. Various polls have revealed a significant increase in the 'non-affliliated' category of religion - which seems to be the best start that can be reasonably expected towards these kinds of goals.

    The God Delusion was published in 2006 and in the UK the situation was that the number of non-religious and the Christian were approximately equal (the non-religious gaining ground on the slightly dominant Christianity), as per this graph. It'll be interesting to see if 'non religion' continues to gain strength as it has in the rest of Europe.

    What will really be interesting is watching how Islam continues to react with Atheism in Europe and Christianity in the US.

    Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 5 by Buzsaw, posted 01-03-2010 12:53 PM Buzsaw has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 14 by Buzsaw, posted 01-03-2010 9:18 PM Modulous has responded

      
    Parasomnium
    Member (Idle past 868 days)
    Posts: 2191
    Joined: 07-15-2003


    Message 11 of 270 (541440)
    01-03-2010 4:35 PM
    Reply to: Message 4 by Thugpreacha
    01-03-2010 12:44 PM


    Re: How about humanity as a whole?
    Phat writes:

    [...] the only challenge regarding tackling problems on an international level is consensus. Is it possible?

    Consensus, yes, of course. But look at Copenhagen: there another perennial problem of our leaders became embarrassingly clear: their single minded focus on the political and economical effects of whatever they decide on all these important matters. As long as they only have their eyes on their re-election in a few years' time, or on short term economical development, they'll never get even close to solutions that work.

    And that's just the democratic leaders. What about China, for example? They weren't exactly cooperative.


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 4 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-03-2010 12:44 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

      
    Parasomnium
    Member (Idle past 868 days)
    Posts: 2191
    Joined: 07-15-2003


    Message 12 of 270 (541443)
    01-03-2010 5:01 PM
    Reply to: Message 8 by Buzsaw
    01-03-2010 1:15 PM


    Re: How about humanity as a whole?
    Hello Buz,

    Legend has already answered you initial question to me, and said what I would have said.

    Buzsaw writes:

    [...] thanks to athiest and secularistic agendas and policies, education is being increasingly restricted, allowing only secularistic ideology in the classrooms, with secularist education ever predominating.

    That's sounds a bit paranoid. And I think you've got it the wrong way around: secular education is less restricted, in that it teaches the facts, without pushing one particular interpretation over others. In secular education it's possible - in my country anyway - to learn about different faiths without having one of them forced upon you.

    [...] since the recording of history began, milleniums ago, all human cultures remain religious.

    As you well know, we've only had a few centuries of what can be called modern science now; before that, everything we really knew about the world could be written down on a single sheet of vellum, and then there'd still be room for the Lord's Prayer. And besides, most people weren't literate enough to be able to read even that.

    Must the human DNA be artificially altered in order to mutate out this universal religious preponderance?

    Not the DNA, no. But some memes need to be replaced, is all.


    "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin.
    This message is a reply to:
     Message 8 by Buzsaw, posted 01-03-2010 1:15 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

      
    onifre
    Member (Idle past 1123 days)
    Posts: 4854
    From: Dark Side of the Moon
    Joined: 02-20-2008


    Message 13 of 270 (541483)
    01-03-2010 9:12 PM
    Reply to: Message 7 by Buzsaw
    01-03-2010 1:04 PM


    Oh please, are you serious?
    Perhaps if you wish to support your foolish assumption you could cite evidence that Christian fundamentalism or even other non-Christian fundamentalists are the chief reason for international terrorism today on planet earth.

    Don't let the US media and their anti-Islamic agenda fool you , Buz.

    You actually think there are no christian fundamentalist terrorist groups internationally, or non-Islamic terrorist groups? Wow!

    source

    quote:

    Canada
    The Sons of Freedom, a sect of Doukhobor anarchists, have protested nude, blown up power pylons, railroad bridges, and set fire to homes, often targeting their own property.

    India
    The National Liberation Front of Tripura, a rebel group operating in Tripura, North-East India classified by the National Memorial Institute for the Prevention of Terrorism as one of the ten most active terrorist groups in the world, has been accused of forcefully converting people to Christianity.

    The Nagaland Rebels of Nagaland, North-East India is a coalition of rebel groups including the National Socialist Council of Nagaland-Isak-Muivah, has been involved in an ethnic conflict that has resulted in tens of thousands of deaths since the Indian Declaration of Independence.

    Northern Ireland
    Several people have stated that the religious divide between Roman Catholics and Protestants was a contributing factor to The Troubles:

    Mark Juergensmeyer wrote "Like residents of Belfast and London, Americans were beginning to learn to live with acts of religious terrorism: shocking, disturbing incidents of violence laced with the passion of religion - in these cases, Christianity" and "The violence in Northern Ireland is justified by still other theological positions, Catholic and Protestant." and "The ferocity of religious violence was brought home to me in 1998 when I received the news that a car bomb had exploded in a Belfast neighborhood I had visited the day before.

    Martin Dillon interviewed paramilitaries on both sides of the conflict, questioning how they could reconcile murder with their Christian convictions.

    First Minister of Northern Ireland The Revd. and Rt. Hon. Ian Paisley often cast the conflict in religious terms. He preached that the Roman Catholic Church, which he termed "Popery", had deviated from the Bible, and therefore from true Christianity, giving rise to "revolting superstitions and idolatrous abuses". Paisley held that there were links between the Catholic Church and the Provisional Irish Republican Army, a group which is classified as a proscribed terrorist group in the United Kingdom and as an illegal organisation in the Republic of Ireland. He once said "The Provisional IRA is the military wing of the Roman Catholic Church" and has claimed several times that the Pope is the Antichrist, most famously at the European Parliament, where he interrupted a speech by Pope John Paul II, shouting "I denounce you as the Antichrist!" and holding up a red poster reading "POPE JOHN PAUL II ANTICHRIST".

    Romania
    Anti-Semitic Romanian Orthodox fascist movements in Romania, such as the Iron Guard and Lăncieri, were allegedly responsible for involvement in the Holocaust, Bucharest pogrom, and political murders during the 1930s.

    Russia
    Many Russian political and paramilitary groups combine racism, nationalism, and Russian Orthodox beliefs.

    Russian National Unity, a far right ultra-nationalist political party and paramilitary organization, advocates an increased role for the Russian Orthodox Church according to its manifesto. It has been accused of murders, and several terrorist attacks including the bombing of the US Consulate in Ekaterinburg.

    Uganda
    The Lord's Resistance Army, a sectarian guerrilla army engaged in an armed rebellion against the Ugandan government, has been accused of using child soldiers and committing numerous crimes against humanity; including massacres, abductions, mutilation, torture, rape, porters and sex slaves. It is led by Joseph Kony, who proclaims himself the spokesperson of God and a spirit medium, primarily of the Christian Holy Spirit which the Acholi believe can represent itself in many manifestations. LRA fighters wear rosary beads and recite passages from the Bible before battle.


    These are just the Christian terrorist groups. Let me know if you need all the non-Islaimc/non-Christian terrorist groups.........

    Change the channel from FoxNews just one time, Buz!

    - Oni


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 7 by Buzsaw, posted 01-03-2010 1:04 PM Buzsaw has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 15 by DrJones*, posted 01-03-2010 9:27 PM onifre has not yet responded
     Message 16 by hooah212002, posted 01-03-2010 9:29 PM onifre has not yet responded
     Message 17 by Buzsaw, posted 01-03-2010 9:48 PM onifre has responded
     Message 45 by iano, posted 01-04-2010 6:04 PM onifre has responded

        
    Buzsaw
    Inactive Member


    Message 14 of 270 (541484)
    01-03-2010 9:18 PM
    Reply to: Message 10 by Modulous
    01-03-2010 2:13 PM


    Re: Erosion of religion, the continuing 'clash' of cultures
    Modulous writes:

    Dennett has a slightly more acheivable short term goal, which is to try an reduce the number of toxic varieties of religious belief. This requires free (as in both open and at no cost) religious education. Toxic religions seem to thrive on enforced ignorance of other ideas.

    Hi Modulous. So who is to determine what determines relitious toxicity?

    "Enforced ignorance of other (?) ideas. You mean like parents taking their children to Sunday School and church whether they wish to go or not? In your view, is this enforced ignorance happening in our nation?

    But the debating, the openly 'coming out' of philosophers, scientists, comedians, actors etc etc, does seem to be having an impact. We'll have to wait to see the results of the censuses before we can really see what the impact is. Various polls have revealed a significant increase in the 'non-affliliated' category of religion - which seems to be the best start that can be reasonably expected towards these kinds of goals.

    Non affiliated category? What would be some examples of this?

    Modulous writes:

    The God Delusion was published in 2006 and in the UK the situation was that the number of non-religious and the Christian were approximately equal (the non-religious gaining ground on the slightly dominant Christianity), as per this graph. It'll be interesting to see if 'non religion' continues to gain strength as it has in the rest of Europe.

    For sure it will so long as the non-religious POV prevails in American schools where, unlike the first 200 years, practice of religion is forbidden.

    Modulous writes:

    What will really be interesting is watching how Islam continues to react with Atheism in Europe and Christianity in the US.

    LOL! All that has kept Islam at bay the past 1300+ years has been opposing religious entities. The trend of government in America in recent decades has been leniency on the practice of Islam while imposing restrictions on the practice of Christianity.

    Start weaving your prayer rug, ye athiests and all of the rest of ye infidel unbelievers of Mohammed and Allah. The Nation Of Islam marches on with the blessings of the president whom they and all of Islam supported. Their prophet's predicted proclamation to populate, police and possess the planet appears apocalyptic.


    BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
    The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
    This message is a reply to:
     Message 10 by Modulous, posted 01-03-2010 2:13 PM Modulous has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 103 by Modulous, posted 01-07-2010 6:27 AM Buzsaw has responded

      
    DrJones*
    Member
    Posts: 1867
    From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
    Joined: 08-19-2004
    Member Rating: 4.9


    Message 15 of 270 (541485)
    01-03-2010 9:27 PM
    Reply to: Message 13 by onifre
    01-03-2010 9:12 PM


    Re: Oh please, are you serious?
    $5 says Buz's reply will be along the lines of "Those aren't real Christians", because he after all is the sole arbiter of who is and isn't a Christian.


    It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
    soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
    Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
    Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
    All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
    And so there was only one thing I could do
    Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry

    Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
    Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
    If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
    *not an actual doctor
    This message is a reply to:
     Message 13 by onifre, posted 01-03-2010 9:12 PM onifre has not yet responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 18 by Buzsaw, posted 01-03-2010 9:58 PM DrJones* has responded

      
    1
    23456
    ...
    18NextFF
    Newer Topic | Older Topic
    Jump to:


    Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

    ™ Version 4.0 Beta
    Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019