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Author Topic:   Faith healing: why does god need to asked to heal people?
Larni
Member
Posts: 3990
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 1 of 63 (579055)
09-03-2010 1:13 PM


Why does god need to be petitioned by people saying prayers to heal people?

It seems odd to me that a god would only heal people when they are prayed for.

Does this mean that god only heals those who have enough people who like and pray for them?

Can't god tell when a person deserves healing?

It seems to me that there are millions of people around the world who could be healed and yet this does not happen.

Why does god need to be asked to heal people?

Faith and Belief, please.

Edited by Larni, : improving op


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Adminnemooseus, posted 09-03-2010 3:05 PM Larni has responded
 Message 5 by cavediver, posted 09-03-2010 4:37 PM Larni has responded
 Message 6 by Stile, posted 09-03-2010 4:56 PM Larni has not yet responded
 Message 10 by archaeologist, posted 09-04-2010 6:31 PM Larni has not yet responded
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Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3898
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 2 of 63 (579086)
09-03-2010 3:05 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Larni
09-03-2010 1:13 PM


Not enough content in message 1
I presume this is a spin-off of the Murder by prayer: When is enough, enough? topic.

I think you need to state your position in message 1. I also think you need to get the word "prayer" into the topic title.

My impression is that the true theme you're shooting at is "The purpose of prayer". You might consider revamping message 1 towards that theme.

Adminnemooseus


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Larni
Member
Posts: 3990
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 3 of 63 (579105)
09-03-2010 4:16 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Adminnemooseus
09-03-2010 3:05 PM


Re: Not enough content in message 1
I've had another go, Moose.

This message is a reply to:
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Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3898
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 4 of 63 (579108)
09-03-2010 4:24 PM


Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum
Thread copied here from the Faith healing: why does god need to asked to heal people? thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.

    
cavediver
Member (Idle past 1935 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 5 of 63 (579110)
09-03-2010 4:37 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Larni
09-03-2010 1:13 PM


Why does god need to be asked to heal people?

Having spent most of my life as a Christian, it is obvious. I have seen literally thousands of prayers answered, whether for healing, wisdom, courage, guidance, exam results(!), etc. Amazing, all of them. I once freed Terry Waite from his captivity in Lebanon by the power of my daily prayers.

But it is the tens of thousands that I have seen go unanswered, those desperate for healing and getting none, those following every Word given them and falling further and further into debt and despair, Terry Waite spending four years as a hostage in Lebanon despite me praying for him every day; it is they that answer your question.

God does not exist, or at least dcertainly not in any form recognisable by evangelical Christians. Or anyone that thinks that intercessory prayer works.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Larni, posted 09-03-2010 1:13 PM Larni has responded

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Stile
Member
Posts: 3849
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 6 of 63 (579113)
09-03-2010 4:56 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Larni
09-03-2010 1:13 PM


My Best Guess
[Creationist]

Larni writes:

Why does god need to be petitioned by people saying prayers to heal people?

God is not healing because he was petitioned. God is helping and providing for those who have faith. If you have faith, then praying is not a request for help, it's more a daily communication. So God isn't so much answering pleas as he is giving back to those who have dedicated their lives to Him.

Does this mean that god only heals those who have enough people who like and pray for them?

No. God only heals those who dedicate their lives to Him.

Can't god tell when a person deserves healing?

Yes. But bad stuff happens because of man's free will. God heals those who use that free will to dedicate their lives to Him... that's the measure of "deserving".

Why does god need to be asked to heal people?

He doesn't. It just looks like this on the surface if you don't understand the proper procedure of dedicating your life to God.

[/Creationist]

Ouch. That almost hurt.


This message is a reply to:
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Larni
Member
Posts: 3990
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 7 of 63 (579152)
09-03-2010 6:07 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by cavediver
09-03-2010 4:37 PM


I once freed Terry Waite from his captivity in Lebanon by the power of my daily prayers.

I vote that for POTM if I thought it would fly.


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Taz
Member (Idle past 1583 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 8 of 63 (579153)
09-03-2010 6:09 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Adminnemooseus
09-03-2010 3:05 PM


{Non-relevant subtitle replace by meta-subtitle}
George Carlin explained it best about prayer.

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Killed carry over subtitle.


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Larni
Member
Posts: 3990
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 9 of 63 (579161)
09-03-2010 6:40 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Taz
09-03-2010 6:09 PM


Re: {Non-relevant subtitle replace by meta-subtitle}
Station.

This message is a reply to:
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archaeologist
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 10 of 63 (579456)
09-04-2010 6:31 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Larni
09-03-2010 1:13 PM


Why does god need to be petitioned by people saying prayers to heal people?

#1 God is respecting your right of free choice. what good would it do if He healed someone who did not want to be healed? they would be angry become resentful and stop following Him.

#2. communication is done by speaking and requesting reveals the heart and faith of the person. God operates BY FAITH not secular science.

Does this mean that god only heals those who have enough people who like and pray for them?

nope. it takes only one or two

Can't god tell when a person deserves healing?

yes, but people have free choice tus they get to decide if they want healing or not. God will NOT force people to do things at this time---if He did there would be NO atheists.

It seems to me that there are millions of people around the world who could be healed and yet this does not happen.

God has chosen to work through His followers and if they choose not to exercise the spiritual gifts bestowed upon them then many will not be healed, or helped. just like the nations of the world who have people starving, if ther nations decide not to help, those people will die.

Why does god need to be asked to heal people?

need is a strong word, He doesn't 'need' to be asked, HE wants people to learn to do it right, to be humble, to give Him the glory and show that it was Him alone that did it and was NOT coincidence, an alternative and so on. He wants to make sure all people know that He alone is the one who healed so that His existence is proved true and that He can demonstrate that He loves you, has compassion, mercy, and is interested in you plus that He is involved with life andnot some nameless, faceless, silent, seperated god.


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Replies to this message:
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archaeologist
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 63 (579457)
09-04-2010 6:38 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Stile
09-03-2010 4:56 PM


Re: My Best Guess
God only heals those who dedicate their lives to Him.

this is contradicted by jesus' healing of the 10 lepers and so many others. i have not seen any verse which makes this restriction and certainly all the people that jesus healed did NOT dedicate themselves to Him.

another example would be the roman soldier, at no time is such an act recorded in the story nor of the soldiers servant. it may have come as a RESULT of the healing but it is NOT a requirement.

So God isn't so much answering pleas as he is giving back to those who have dedicated their lives to Him.

again this is contradicted by the example fo Nicky Cruz who had prayer answered BEFORE he repented and became a believer.

But bad stuff happens because of man's free will. God heals those who use that free will to dedicate their lives to Him... that's the measure of "deserving".

no the measure is FAITH not dedication as Jesus repeatedly said 'your faith...' or 'greater faith i have not seen in all of israel...'

has nothing to do with dedication or 'deserving'.

He doesn't. It just looks like this on the surface if you don't understand the proper procedure of dedicating your life to God.

see my previouspost.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Stile, posted 09-03-2010 4:56 PM Stile has acknowledged this reply

  
archaeologist
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 63 (579458)
09-04-2010 6:42 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by cavediver
09-03-2010 4:37 PM


Having spent most of my life as a Christian, it is obvious. I have seen literally thousands of prayers answered, whether for healing, wisdom, courage, guidance, exam results(!), etc. Amazing, all of them.

then why did you leave God?

But it is the tens of thousands that I have seen go unanswered, those desperate for healing and getting none, those following every Word given them and falling further and further into debt and despair, Terry Waite spending four years as a hostage in Lebanon despite me praying for him every day

is God bound to answer only the way you want? cannot God say 'no' or 'not at this time' or 'your request is corrupted by the wrong motive'?

or did you fail to see God provide an answer and that the people did not respond or do what He said because it wasn't the answer they wanted? why punish God for things people did or did not do?

God does not exist

how can you say this when your first response was 'i saw many answered prayers...it was all amazing...'? obviously, God does exist you just let your doubt allow evil to lead you astray.


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Replies to this message:
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Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5399
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 13 of 63 (579477)
09-04-2010 9:10 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by archaeologist
09-04-2010 6:31 PM


nope. it takes only one or two

Except in the case of amputees, where it seems to require rather a larger number. More than seven billion, apparently.


"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Phage0070
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 63 (579490)
09-04-2010 10:06 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by archaeologist
09-04-2010 6:42 PM


archaeologist writes:

then why did you leave God?

If you consider prayers which come about, are "answered", as being proof of God's existence then do you consider unanswered prayers proof that God does not exist?

Since you don't, how can that be anything but confirmation bias?


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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archaeologist
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 63 (579553)
09-05-2010 12:40 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Coragyps
09-04-2010 9:10 PM


Except in the case of amputees, where it seems to require rather a larger number. More than seven billion, apparently.

ahh the amputee perspective. God is not forced to heal everyone and why He does not heal more than He does is up to Him and He has His reasons.

I don't know that God doesn't heal amputees. I'm sure it's rare, but then it just stands to reason that it would take a lot of faith. Jesus said you only need a little (mustard seed) but he also said you have to use it. It would take a lot of faith to equal a little at times

http://www.doxa.ws/other/Miracles7.html

as i stated in the other thread, people are looking for one answer and do not acdept anyother. these people get artificial limbs ,they get medical treatment and the timing is of God. God isn't going to use a miracle of regrowing a limb every time.

but atheists just want excuses to remain atheists.


This message is a reply to:
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