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Author Topic:   why is the atheist obsessed with the Bible
archaeologist
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 112 (581236)
09-14-2010 5:47 PM


they do not believe it to be true, they claim their is no evidence to support its record,, they say it is a human book and people who follow christianity are following an imaginary sky jockey (to use their venacular) and they do not believe in the miracles, in the life changes brought about by belief in Jesus and reject all proofs that support the christian faith and the Bible.
Phillip Davies is a prime example of this as in one lecture he states that he loves the Bible and has studied it for 50 years (now about 60) yet he denies most of it and when shown actual evidence he just closes his eyes and says 'it did not happen' .(this last one was done in an t.v. documentery interview and the former was the lecture entitled Te Intellectual, The archaeologist and the Bible, 2001)
so since the atheist doe snot believe the Bible to be true and that there is no God, why then are they obsessed with christianity and attack it at every turn? if people want to believe, then it is none of the atheist business, if people want to preach it, it is none of the atheist's business, if people want to use faith healing on their children, it is none of the atheist's business.
and on we can go with that list. the atheist wants to practice their unbelief in peace yet they will not allow the believer to pactice their beliefs in peace. if a family wants to go to church and have christian ideas taught in public school, then it is none of the atheist's business. if they do not like it, they can build their own schools and avoid the church buildings.
the atheist has NO authority to determine what other people do in their own families, they only have to deal with raising their children properly and that includes teaching them to mind their own business. All parents and governments must give an account for their actions thus the atheist should be wise and focus their attention on their responsibilities and not the responsibilities of others.
if they do not like what others do, too bad, they do not get a say in those family affairs especiallysince they refuse to allow the christian the same right of interference in their own families.
this obsession with the Bible, God and christians demonstrates that the ible is true, that God does exist, and christianity is not pie in the sky because these same peopel do not attack any false religion or their writngs as they do the Holy Bible and christianity.
what are they afraid of? clearly they are afraid because they know they are wrong and do not have the stones to admit it nor repent from their sins because they think they will lose much.
so let's see if the atheists and secualrists on this board can be honest in this discussion and state why they are so obsessed with Christianity and the Bible. If it is false then why are they so worried about it? if it is false why should they have to force secular science its theories on everyone? if evolution were true then why are they afraid of creation being taught in schools? (evolution is not science so they cannot use it as a defense, for their experiments are all artificial and do not replicate one true claimed evolutionary change)
if creation and God are false then why are the atheist so bent on hindering its efforts? everyone knows that if something is false it will be dropped by everyone except by the most diehard fanatics. yet all false religions use the Bible and its stories in their teacings as they know you need partial truth to deceive people and con them out of their money.
so the ball is in the atheist court and let's see them use real evidence to back up their points.
Edited by archaeologist, : No reason given.

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AdminPD
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Message 2 of 112 (581260)
09-14-2010 7:25 PM


Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum
Thread copied here from the why is the atheist obsessed with the Bible thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34065
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.0


(2)
Message 3 of 112 (581265)
09-14-2010 7:49 PM


My experience is that non-Christians are more likely to have actually read the Bible than many Christians. I see no signs that they are obsessed with the Bible, rather that they actually read what it says.
if a family wants to go to church and have christian ideas taught in public school, then it is none of the atheist's business.
You actually touch on why the Bible is inappropriate in public schools, and that is that they are PUBLIC schools.
BUT...the bigger issue is that what you seem to want taught is not Christian ideas but rather your particular version of Christian ideas.
That is a great example of what the Founders of this country faced. They understood that the great threat to the continued existence of this Nation is the fact that Christian Sects honestly believe that they have the TRUTH and that everybody else is wrong.
Evidence of that is that you seem to think that Evolution is not factual, that there actually was a Biblical Flood, and other issues that are NOT issues for many Christian sects.
If you wish to see your particular version of Christianity, then of course you are free to do so, but NOT to impose your beliefs on the rest of society.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Replies to this message:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1555 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


(1)
Message 4 of 112 (581267)
09-14-2010 8:00 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by archaeologist
09-14-2010 5:47 PM


so since the atheist doe snot believe the Bible to be true and that there is no God, why then are they obsessed with christianity and attack it at every turn?
You came to our website, friend. Atheist attacks on Christianity are primarily a form of self-defense - Christians like you cannot abide even the existence of atheists, and are compelled to seek them out and attack them - exactly as you have done.
Why do we do it with the Bible? Because it's relatively easy to know more about the Bible than your average Christian, who is content to open it only at church and only to the pages told to him by the minister. And because Christians hold it as authoritative - thus, arguments that turn the Bible against Christianity are very vexing to Christians.
if people want to use faith healing on their children, it is none of the atheist's business.
Abuse and neglect of children is everybody's business.

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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4278 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


(1)
Message 5 of 112 (581268)
09-14-2010 8:04 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by archaeologist
09-14-2010 5:47 PM


o since the atheist doe snot believe the Bible to be true and that there is no God, why then are they obsessed with christianity and attack it at every turn? if people want to believe, then it is none of the atheist business, if people want to preach it, it is none of the atheist's business, if people want to use faith healing on their children, it is none of the atheist's business.
What has being an Atheist got to do with any of this.
It is no ones business about preaching except when it encroaches some one else whether Atheist, agnostic, deist or theist, when someone tries to force their beliefs down someone else's throat, then it becomes their business.
As for faith healing, no one is stopping that, but when the person is in danger of dying, then it becomes the government's burden to save the person from needless death and if the faith healers don't get help, and the patient dies, it is manslaughter, which has nothing to do with atheists. The same would go for anyone who doesn't seek help to save a child from dying theist or not.
and on we can go with that list. the atheist wants to practice their unbelief in peace yet they will not allow the believer to pactice their beliefs in peace. if a family wants to go to church and have christian ideas taught in public school, then it is none of the atheist's business. if they do not like it, they can build their own schools and avoid the church buildings.
Teaching religion in public schools has nothing to do with atheism, it is against the establishment clause to the 1st amendment of the Constitution.
the atheist has NO authority to determine what other people do in their own families, they only have to deal with raising their children properly and that includes teaching them to mind their own business. All parents and governments must give an account for their actions thus the atheist should be wise and focus their attention on their responsibilities and not the responsibilities of others.
Again it is not the atheist who is trying to tell a person how to raise his children, it is the government which sets certain standards which if not followed, will result in either arrest or the taking of the child from the parents. Again this will occur to anyone, not just theists.
You seem to be the one who is obsessed. Most Atheists, and any other group, couldn't care less about your beliefs, as long as they do not cause harm or do not go against his rights.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969
Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

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Capt Stormfield
Member
Posts: 429
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


Message 6 of 112 (581271)
09-14-2010 8:27 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by archaeologist
09-14-2010 5:47 PM


QED
the atheist wants to practice their unbelief in peace yet they will not allow the believer to pactice their beliefs in peace. if a family wants to go to church and have christian ideas taught in public school, then it is none of the atheist's business.
You have answered your own question.
Capt.

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caldron68
Member (Idle past 3930 days)
Posts: 79
From: USA
Joined: 08-26-2007


Message 7 of 112 (581272)
09-14-2010 8:45 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by archaeologist
09-14-2010 5:47 PM


they do not believe it to be true, they claim their is no evidence to support its record,, they say it is a human book and people who follow christianity are following an imaginary sky jockey (to use their venacular) and they do not believe in the miracles, in the life changes brought about by belief in Jesus and reject all proofs that support the christian faith and the Bible.
Please provide one proof.
and on we can go with that list. the atheist wants to practice their unbelief in peace yet they will not allow the believer to pactice their beliefs in peace. if a family wants to go to church and have christian ideas taught in public school, then it is none of the atheist's business. if they do not like it, they can build their own schools and avoid the church buildings.
Well, you've hit the nail on the head. Because you believe in Christianity, you believe that you have a right to teach it in public schools. Sorry, but our public schools are filled with students of many, many faiths and it is wrong to force your beliefs on those that hold their beliefs just as sacred as you hold yours.
Here in the South there are still "blue laws" in affect that directly impact my ability to live my life as I see fit. Left unchallenged, Christians will do everything within their power to force their beliefs on everybody and anybody who does not share their same ideals.
Caldron68

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Coyote
Member (Idle past 2195 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(2)
Message 8 of 112 (581275)
09-14-2010 9:04 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by caldron68
09-14-2010 8:45 PM


Dogmatic dogma
Left unchallenged, Christians will do everything within their power to force their beliefs on everybody and anybody who does not share their same ideals.
It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so, and will follow it by suppressing opposition, subverting all education to seize early the minds of the young, and by killing, locking up, or driving underground all heretics.
Robert A. Heinlein, Postscript to Revolt in 2100
Folks can believe what they want, but when they start forcing their beliefs on the rest of us it's time to fight back.
Remember, the Enlightenment told us that we no longer have to kowtow to the shamans, no matter who they are or what they claim.
Perhaps a more apt quote for "archaeologist" might be:
Save us, dear Lord, from those who would save us.
Art Hoppe, On the Death of Robert Kennedy
San Francisco Chronicle, 1968

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

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Dogmafood
Member (Idle past 437 days)
Posts: 1815
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010


(1)
Message 9 of 112 (581281)
09-14-2010 9:40 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by archaeologist
09-14-2010 5:47 PM


they do not believe it to be true, they claim their is no evidence to support its record
Even though I dont believe in God as a sentient being I see all kinds of truth in the bible. From the wisdom of the ten commandments to the sorrow of Ecclesiastes to the joy of the Song of Songs. JC was pretty cool too.
I feel compelled to resist when I see the truth of a thing perverted to assuage the ego.
You cant see the smile on the Mona Lisa through a microscope.

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dwise1
Member
Posts: 5974
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.6


(2)
Message 10 of 112 (581287)
09-14-2010 10:14 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by archaeologist
09-14-2010 5:47 PM


Ignorance is Not Bliss
Sun Tzu, Scroll III (Offensive Strategy):
quote:

  1. Therefore I say: "Know the enemy and know yourself; in a hundred battles
    you will never be in peril.
  2. When you are ignorant of the enemy but know yourself, your chances of
    winning or losing are equal.
  3. If ignorant both of your enemy and of yourself, you are certain in every
    battle to be in peril."

(Sun Tzu The Art of War, translation by Samuel B. Griffith, Oxford University Press, 1963)

The Governor of Mississippi explaining why he was campaigning so hard for education reform in his state:
quote:
We know that ignorance doesn't work, because we've already tried it!
(Quoted from memory from a radio newscast circa 1990, give or
take half a decade)


Archy, we cannot help but notice that you use ignorance almost exclusively. How's that working for you?
Or shouldn't you read these quotes and realize that if you are going to fight against evolution or against atheism, you should at least try to learn something about it first? That applies whether you are on the offensive against something as well as when you are having to defend yourself from attack, as is our case.
and on we can go with that list. the atheist wants to practice their unbelief in peace yet they will not allow the believer to pactice their beliefs in peace. if a family wants to go to church and have christian ideas taught in public school, then it is none of the atheist's business. if they do not like it, they can build their own schools and avoid the church buildings.
Actually, Christians are not the only ones that applies to. Everybody has the right to practice according to their own beliefs, whatever those beliefs may be. Also, everybody (not just Christians) has the right to raise their families and teach their children their own ideas regarding religion. The only proviso is that those practices do not prevent others from exercises those same rights and that they do no harm to others and do not violate the laws of the state.
Public schools are just that, public. They are run by the state for the benefit of allcitizens of all religious persuasions. As such, they cannot impose any one religion's beliefs on all the students. Public schools are for secular and civil education; religious education belongs in the home, in the church, and in their church's religious organizations.
Edited by dwise1, : HTML correction

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 373 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 11 of 112 (581291)
09-14-2010 10:43 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by archaeologist
09-14-2010 5:47 PM


If you mean --- why does the average atheist know more about the Bible then you do, then the answer is obvious. Having read your posts, it is painfully obvious that the average atheist knows more about everything than you do.

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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9283
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.0


(1)
Message 12 of 112 (581293)
09-14-2010 10:49 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by archaeologist
09-14-2010 5:47 PM


they claim their is no evidence to support its record,
Show us the evidence. You have started numerous threads and as of yet have shown no evidence.
when shown actual evidence he just closes his eyes and says 'it did not happen' .
What was the evidence he was shown?
if a family wants to go to church and have christian ideas taught in public school, then it is none of the atheist's business. if they do not like it, they can build their own schools
You obviously either do not live in the USA or have no understanding of what the Constitution says. I have asked you this in the past and you have refused to answer. What sects of Christianity should be allowed and what sects shouldn't be allowed to be taught? What if people want Islam to be taught in schools?
Oh we have our own schools. Public schools that should be free of all religion Christin or otherwise.
this obsession with the Bible, God and christians demonstrates that the ible is true, that God does exist, and christianity is not pie in the sky because these same peopel do not attack any false religion or their writngs as they do the Holy Bible and christianity.
Are you f'ing serious. The reason Christianity is the one that gets the most attention is because it is the dominant religion in western societies. That you can use the one as proof of the other is not just juvenile, it is idiotic. I know middle schoolers with better reasoning skills than you.
All you have is apologetics and No True scotsmen fallacy.
so the ball is in the atheist court and let's see them use real evidence to back up their points.
After this barely coherent diatribe, I have no idea what you want proof of. What is the evidence you want?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

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Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.5


(3)
Message 13 of 112 (581304)
09-14-2010 11:38 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by archaeologist
09-14-2010 5:47 PM


Phillip Davies is a prime example of this as in one lecture he states that he loves the Bible and has studied it for 50 years (now about 60) yet he denies most of it and when shown actual evidence he just closes his eyes and says 'it did not happen' .
And to think of all the poor, misbegotten fools who love the works of Shakespeare and yet deny that Romeo ever existed.
so since the atheist doe snot believe the Bible to be true and that there is no God, why then are they obsessed with christianity and attack it at every turn?
Because we are a minority that lives in a Christian dominated culture. If we lived in a Muslim dominated culture we would be talking about the Qur'an. If our legislative bodies were dominated by Hindus looking to force Hindu creationism into the science classroom we would be talking about the Hindu scriptures.
As it stands now the anti-science creationists in this country take the Bible as their source material,, so we tend to focus on that one.
and on we can go with that list. the atheist wants to practice their unbelief in peace yet they will not allow the believer to pactice their beliefs in peace.
When was the last time your Sunday worship was interrupted by atheists? Has this ever happened? Have atheist groups blocked entrance to your church or place of worship?
What I suspect is that you have confused free practice with agreement. I have seen this often amongst outspoken christians. It appears that christians are not able to worship freely if someone on the other side of town disagrees with them. I find this attitude to be quite strange, but it exists nonetheless.
this obsession with the Bible, God and christians demonstrates that the ible is true, that God does exist, and christianity is not pie in the sky because these same peopel do not attack any false religion or their writngs as they do the Holy Bible and christianity.
Then your adamant rejection of evolution and an old earth proves that it is true.
if it is false why should they have to force secular science its theories on everyone?
For the same reason that we force secular geometry and algebra on students. We are still waiting for you to go after algebra since x+y=1 makes no mention of a creator. Even worse, the calculations used to measure the volume of a sphere do not include the resurrection of the Christ.

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8593
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.0


(1)
Message 14 of 112 (581313)
09-15-2010 12:54 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by archaeologist
09-14-2010 5:47 PM


No, we do not attack the bible. You do.
You attack its beauty, its compassion and its hope by making it stupid with your insistence that your interpretation of its myths are literal and your interpretation of its message is infallible.
We attack the stupid.
But do not let this deter you. You and your fellow stupids are doing more to grow atheists on this planet than anything the rest of us could possibly do.
At the present rate of growth in atheists as a percentage of the population in the USA, another couple generations and your fundamental, inerrant and literal stupidity of a religion will be in the useless minority where you can then fade away into oblivion without anyone noticing.
Do keep it up.

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Otto Tellick
Member (Idle past 2419 days)
Posts: 288
From: PA, USA
Joined: 02-17-2008


(1)
Message 15 of 112 (581328)
09-15-2010 2:55 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by archaeologist
09-14-2010 5:47 PM


archaeologist writes:
if people want to believe, then it is none of the atheist business,
Agreed. In fact, I don't know of any atheist who would disagree with this. Likewise, when people choose not to believe, it is none of the Christian's business. You can say "how sad that the atheist doesn't believe in Christ", and the atheist can say "how sad that the Christian has these strange beliefs", and maybe we can just leave it at that.
if people want to preach it, it is none of the atheist's business,
This implies that if there are 2 (or 5, or 100) people each of whom believes and wants to preach his/her own distinct, different version of Christianity, they should all have an equal right to do so. And each one can (and will) say that the other preachers are incorrect in their preaching.
Why are you not complaining about all those other Christians who disagree with you? Why are you picking on atheists in particular?
if people want to use faith healing on their children, it is none of the atheist's business.
As humans, we're part of a species whose survival depends on an elaborate system of social relationships, and many of these relationships are founded on empathy and caring. As a society, we recognize that when children suffer or die needlessly, this is a bad thing, and it serves our communal interests to prevent it.
It's so important that we have laws to enforce punishment for anyone who abuses children, and for parents or guardians who neglect their children (for example, by not consulting a doctor when they really should).
This is not an atheist thing -- it's a human, social, ethical thing, based mostly on empathy. If you don't agree with this, and yet call yourself a Christian, then you are presenting a very bad image for Christianity.
if a family wants to ... have christian ideas taught in public school, then it is none of the atheist's business.
Atheists pay taxes just like Christians do -- in fact, it's likely that a given atheist pays more taxes than a Christian (other things being equal, such as income, property and location), because the churches are tax exempt, and all the money that Christians give to their churches is tax deductible.
So the public schools belong to the atheists as much as to the Christians. It's completely wrong to say that what is taught in public schools is "none of the atheist's business."
And of course, as pointed out by others above, our form of government in the U.S. requires that our public schools must not promulgate any particular form of religion, since this would violate the rights of others, who may choose not to accept that particular religion, and may object to having their tax dollars spent in support of it.
if (the atheists) do not like it, they can build their own schools...
On the contrary, it's up to the Christians to build their own schools if they want their religion to be part of the curriculum. But even when Christians decide to take full charge of their children's education, it is still a valid concern of the society as a whole to make sure that these children are not neglected due to being given an inadequate education. It serves our communal interests to ensure that all schools apply a general standard of proficiency in various subjects.

autotelic adj. (of an entity or event) having within itself the purpose of its existence or happening.

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