In
Message 83 of the thread
Deconversion experiences ICDESIGN makes the claim that this is a prophecy fulfilled by Jesus.
quote:
ICDESIGN writes:
bluescat48 writes:
You make the statement about fulfilled prophesies, therefore it is up to you to back them up with evidence.
......here are just a few...
Old Testament Prophecy // New Testament Fulfillment
Isaiah 52: 13&14 // John 19:1-3
Micah 5:2 // Matthew 2:1
Isaiah 7:14 // Matthew 1: 18-21
Daniel 9:25 // Galatians 4:4
Genesis 49:10 // Luke 3:23-38
Zechariah 9:9 // Matthew 21 1-4
I'd like for us to step through the examples in order to see if any actually can be supported.
Here is the first example given.
quote:
Isaiah 52:13-14 (New International Version, 2010)
The Suffering and Glory of the Servant
13 See, my servant will act wisely[1];
he will be raised and lifted up and highly exalted.
14 Just as there were many who were appalled at him[2]
his appearance was so disfigured beyond that of any human being
and his form marred beyond human likeness
Footnotes:
1. Isaiah 52:13 Or will prosper
2. Isaiah 52:14 Hebrew you
The first question must be how those two lines relate to the context. So here is Isaiah 52 in full.
quote:
Isaiah 52 (New International Version, 2010)
Isaiah 52
1 Awake, awake, Zion,
clothe yourself with strength!
Put on your garments of splendor,
Jerusalem, the holy city.
The uncircumcised and defiled
will not enter you again.
2 Shake off your dust;
rise up, sit enthroned, Jerusalem.
Free yourself from the chains on your neck,
Daughter Zion, now a captive.
3 For this is what the LORD says:
You were sold for nothing,
and without money you will be redeemed.
4 For this is what the Sovereign LORD says:
At first my people went down to Egypt to live;
lately, Assyria has oppressed them.
5 And now what do I have here? declares the LORD.
For my people have been taken away for nothing,
and those who rule them mock,
declares the LORD.
And all day long
my name is constantly blasphemed.
6 Therefore my people will know my name;
therefore in that day they will know
that it is I who foretold it.
Yes, it is I.
7 How beautiful on the mountains
are the feet of those who bring good news,
who proclaim peace,
who bring good tidings,
who proclaim salvation,
who say to Zion,
Your God reigns!
8 Listen! Your watchmen lift up their voices;
together they shout for joy.
When the LORD returns to Zion,
they will see it with their own eyes.
9 Burst into songs of joy together,
you ruins of Jerusalem,
for the LORD has comforted his people,
he has redeemed Jerusalem.
10 The LORD will lay bare his holy arm
in the sight of all the nations,
and all the ends of the earth will see
the salvation of our God.
11 Depart, depart, go out from there!
Touch no unclean thing!
Come out from it and be pure,
you who carry the articles of the LORD’s house.
12 But you will not leave in haste
or go in flight;
for the LORD will go before you,
the God of Israel will be your rear guard.
The Suffering and Glory of the Servant
13 See, my servant will act wisely;
he will be raised and lifted up and highly exalted.
14 Just as there were many who were appalled at him
his appearance was so disfigured beyond that of any human being
and his form marred beyond human likeness
15 so he will sprinkle many nations,
and kings will shut their mouths because of him.
For what they were not told, they will see,
and what they have not heard, they will understand.
As you can see, What Isaiah is talking about is Jerusalem, and his audience is Judah, and it is the subject of Judah's future that is the big question.
The period was when Judah sided with Assyria and Syria in their conquest of Israel and Samaria and acted as an ally and almost vassal state. Isaiah was speaking encouraging Judah to change allegiance and oppose Assyria by an alliance with Egypt.
So that is the setting.
Next, look to see if there is anything in the two verses that is really unique and so would be supported by Jesus or imply that Isaiah was even thinking of Jesus?
Well, not that I can see.
Let's look at ICDESIGN's claimed support of fulfillment?
quote:
John 19:1-3 (New International Version, 2010)
John 19
Jesus Sentenced to Be Crucified
1 Then Pilate took Jesus and had him flogged. 2 The soldiers twisted together a crown of thorns and put it on his head. They clothed him in a purple robe 3 and went up to him again and again, saying, Hail, king of the Jews! And they slapped him in the face.
I certainly don't see support there for a suffering servant acting wisely, or being lifted up, or exalted, or being so disfigured that he was not recognizable as human.
So, unless someone can provide better support than ICDESIGN did I would have to say that this prophecy is not even about Jesus and if it was, it was not fulfilled.
Bible A&E please
Edited by jar, : fix subtitle
Edited by jar, : change title
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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