Colors proof of Divine origin of Bible?

When I was searching for some information about the beliefs and arguments of one of our new members, I can across an interesting argument?There is a claim that this arguments stumps every atheist. I am curious as to the feelings of the atheists and theists about this argument.

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I have used this argument for the Bible's divine origin against atheists so many times, and it's always a little bit funny when they get stumped:
http://www.idscience.org/.../an-amazing-new-biblical-finding

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No webpage found at provided URL: SourceThe premise of the argument is that by using numerology on the hebrew words for the primary colors plus two more and then you graph them you will get a straight line.

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The Bible mentions five colors in Hebrew: red (adom), Yellow (tzahov), green (yerakon), blue (tchelet) and magenta (argaman). One curious observation is immediately apparent, in that this list not only includes the primary colors - red, yellow and blue but it also includes the only two other colors green and magenta that are necessary to produce the complete color palate for four color printing. As interesting as this observation is it pales in comparison to a discovery made by Haim Shore a professor of Statistics and Engineering at Ben-Gurion University. What Professor Shore discovered is that the numerical values of the Hebrew words for these colors is correlated with the spectral wave frequency for these colors.

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Hebrew is an alpha numeric language - in that every letter is also equal to a number. So if you add the values of each letter you get a number for the total value of the word. This is commonly used in gematria, the Rabbinic Cabalistic system of Biblical interpretation and prophesy, but what Shore did is not gematria. After calculating a total value for each word, he then plotted them on a graph. He plotted the numerical value of each word on the horizontal graph and the color’s wave frequency on the vertical axis . To Shore’s amazement he discovered that the graph yielded a straight line.

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It’s a universal principle of engineering that if you have two sets of data, you put them in ascending order, plot one set on the horizontal axis and the other on a vertical axis and if they fall on a straight line, that means that both data sets are measuring the same thing, only on a different scale. I was astonished. The five points on the graph formed a straight line, which means that the names of the colors related directly to their wave frequencies. It was purely a statistical analysis Shore said,I didn’t manipulate a single number in doing the analysis. When I saw this result I was stunned. I was completely astonished. Then I went on to other words in the Hebrew Bible, plotting the value of the letters against known scientific data. The whole thing blew me away. Shore went on to investigate similar cases in the Bible and so far has preformed over 20 different analyses with statistically verifiable findings, for example he has found a similar correlation between numerical word value a planetary diameters.

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Shore began as a Bible skeptic and did not expect to make any of these findings. He says that he does not want to tell anyone what his findings mean but their theological implications are unavoidable.

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No webpage found at provided URL: SourceSo is this the ultimate atheist stumper?

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Facts don\'t lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

A debate about a correlation that can be represented strikingly with a graph seems incomplete without said graph, don't you think?

Not at all.Why is the actual graph important? According to what has been said about it it is a straight line.The graph is not what the debate is about. What is pertinent is whether numerology and the graphing of the results can show evidence that atheists can not refute.Are you just saying that this is not promotable in your eyes?

That doesn't come across in the OP, though. You are referring in the OP to a specific argument that atheists may or may not find irrefutable. Are you wanting to debate assuming that the numerology performed does actually create a straight line?That is to say, are you asking the good members here that if it is indeed true that biblically mentioned colours are numerologically proportional to the frequency of light of those colours would this, as claimed, be the ultimate atheist stumper? Or are you being more general, and asking whether any numerology dataset could be a stumper, giving Shore's work as a mere example? Something else? Supposing it actually isn't despite the claims of Shore...would this be a valid avenue of debate in this topic?

I am asking the good members whether they think that the argument as presented as the ultimate atheist stumper is an atheist stumper.This bit which I have shown has been claimed to be the ultimate atheist stumper. What is presented is the totality of their argument. I assume from your hesitance you do not believe it is the ultimate atheist stumper.I was hoping that Livingstone Morford(who seems to be the one that claims it is the ultimate atheist stumper) would have the opportunity to defend his assertion.The purpose of this OP was to simply determine if the argument as presented is a valid argument for the divinity of the bible. Obviously you do not feel it is and you do not want to promote this thread. That could be something to be discussed, but is obviously not the whole thrust of the OP. Is the OP truly this vague. I have no problem with other things discussed, but I think the OP is quite clear. Of course it would. This would be evidence against the non-validity of the argument. I am confused as to why you would need to ask this question.

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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

Not sure what prompted the snippy tone Theo. I can assure you my reticence of promotion was not related to the strength of the argument you gave an example of. I was thrown by your reference to an argument based around a graph and then your insistence that

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The graph is not what the debate is about

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I thought, that given you wanted to debate an argument surrounding a graph - you might want to provide the graph in question. Seemed logical to me so I made the suggestion.I'm kind of busy at the moment, but I'll take another look at this in a few hours with an eye to promoting it.

Snippy?It was not meant to be snippy at all. Sorry if you felt it was. I guess I was confused by your confusion. I thought it was a quite simple OP and the things you are bringing up are the type of issues I felt the topic would bring forward.Again, I am sorry if my tone seemed snippy.

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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

Thread copied here from the Colors proof of Divine origin of Bible? thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.

So... we have a correlation of the Hebrew words for five different color to their freq length. Cool. However, it really does not prove anything. For some reason they are found in the Bible because... their are very common words I would guess? Even if they only are found in the Bible it does not prove anything about the Bible or God. Gematria is still interesting and fun though.

I'll take "No" for $500, Alex.How many such "correlations" have folks looked through prior to finding this little color tidbit? Hundreds? Thousands?If one seeks to use that one correlation as evidence for something, the hundreds or thousands of negative correlations must also be used as evidence against such things.We hear nothing of all the potential correlations that don't pan out; hmmmmm, wonder why?

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Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

An omg if you use numerology on gorge bush, obama, or any other president you get the number 666 the devils number OMG we are all doomed!!!!!It all depends on what form of numeorology you use on what thing and you can get anything out of it that you want.You can make the works of shakespeere spell out GOD IS DEAD or i love Jesus, if you put your mind to it the same goes for any other book.

I don't think that's exactly what's going on here. What I believe is happeningand I might be wrong since I don't know Hebrew and had a little trouble understanding the OP sans graphis that, since each Hebrew letter corresponds to a number, the 'numbers' in the Hebrew word for 'red', for example, are added up, and that sum assigned as the X value in a coordinate set. That color's corresponding wave frequency value (as determined by, or measured by what I do not know) becomes the Y value. Thus, for each of the colors we have an (X,Y) point to plot on the graph. When we plot them in a given order, for the colors available, we get a straight line.Now, obviously, this doesn't prove anything about God. But there is no need to end the thread there. One thing that has me scratching my head is that I know where they get the Hebrew number value from, but where do they get the color's wave frequency from? Is there a standard for calling colors that relates names to frequencies? Also, how do they know that the standard they use for calling colors is the same as the Jewish writers used at the time the Scriptures were written?The theory has a little bit to explain before we can even determine whether the correlation is valid; once we do though, the answer will still be 'no, this proves nothing about God'. But we can still have fun along the way. JonEdited by Jon, : clarityEdited by Jon, : obscurity

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Check out No webpage found at provided URL: Apollo's Temple!
Ignorance is temporary; you should be able to overcome it. - nwr

Actually, the fourth color in the palate for the four color process would be black, which does appear in the Bible but cannot be made to support Shore's numerology.As white, gray, gold and purple are also mentioned in the Bible, the only "interesting" conclusion that we can draw from its selection of colors is that God hates orange. Perhaps this explains why he's so down on lobster.Curiously, I can't find the passage mentioning magenta, nor any other shade of pink, but perhaps I'm looking at the wrong translation. A color as broadly defined as "yellow" doesn't have one specific wave frequency, it covers a broad range. This gives Shore an awful lot of wiggle room.Magenta doesn't correspond to any wave frequency --- it is purely an artifact of our trichromatic vision system and appears nowhere in the spectrum of visible light. So that's definitely bullshit.Also, I want to see the data.Finally, the claims about gematria, if true, have nothing to do with the Bible as such, just the Hebrew language. If some Israeli atheist wrote a book on the non-existence of God in Hebrew it would also be a work in a language having the stated property. What of it?

If I am understanding your question correctly: the reason that the "colours match frequencies" is evidence of god is because some people believe god invented Hebrew.God => Hebrew => Color frequencies => God => QEDuhSimilar to:
God => Bible => God

I was hoping that Livingstone Morford would stop by and give some support for this.On another Error Page he(or someone else using the same name), made the claim that this was such a great argument.I will try to see if I can find the graphs and more on Shore.

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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts