Is Racism Alive and Well in Church?

Don't bother typing anything, necessarily. Just post a picture, if you would, of a well-integrated congregation, in proper context, from anywhere off the internet.Tick. Tick. Tick...Social Issues, please.

Oh yeah, I should probably establish my position, for the sake of discussion.Is racism alive and well in church?Naturally, my position would be "yes" (pending further understanding).Here's why:I've been to 20 or so churches, in my time. And, in every instance, I have never seen any integration to speak of. If any of you have, I would love to hear about it, at least. A picture would be nice, too. But, I agree that one might be difficult to find.This is a chance to express your goodwill, with regard to racism. It'd be great to see anyone even hint at the idea that Creationism is a fair practice. I could also understand if it took a little too much courage to do that. It's just an idea.For now, it seems like religion is just a convenient way for god to impose segregration upon the people.Come to think of it, this might go better under "Biological Evolution."

Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.Sorry, limbosis, this really looked a lot more like a social issues thread than one on biological evolution.Edited by AdminTL, : Gave reason for move to this forum.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Awesome, jar!Anybody else?-------------------------NOTE: providing web links or filepaths is not considered copying protected work.(Fair Use would also lie well within "god's" durisdiction, for purposes of review.)

....racism does not seem to be one that is prevalent any longer.I have also been to a number of churches in my lifetime and what seems to be consistent is that the racial distribution of the congregation seems to mimic the racial distribution of the surrounding neighborhood.When I have been a member of churches in the 'barrio' the congregation was about 90% hispanic. But if you were to step outside the church during service the number of people taking prat in non-religious daily life nearby would also be 90% hispanic.When I have been a member of a churche near old town the congregation was mixed between old-school hispanics and yuppie california "immigrants". If you walk around old town the people there are mostly old-school hispanics and yuppie california tourists looking for southwestern style.The most diverse church service I have ever attended had an african american preacher with a mostly white and hispanic congregation with lesser amounts of african american and native americans sprinkled in.When you see churches with a mostly white or mostly black congregation you have to ask yourself if there might be a less insidious reason than racism. Geography seems to be a better indicator to me of how a church congreation might be distributed.To claim that churches are racially divided, one is going to need more of an argument that your glib request for photographic proof that churches are NOT racist. All you seem to want to do with this thread is slam Christian churches for silly and invalid reasons.There are many valid reasons to slam mainstream Christian churches. The fact that many of them are now corporate style social monarchies totally devoid of any of the principles of Christ is a much better route to take than to try to pin on racism.

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Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

The point is that it took no effort to present those. I could as easily used pictures from any of the many Churches I have belonged to in my travels around the country.You have simply set up another false dilemma, that Racism and Churches reflect anything other than the diversity of communities and individuals.You could as easily said clubs, or fraternal organizations or any other social gatherings.There will be organizations where groups are racist, or sexist, or homophobic or any other designation you might wish to toss out. BUT that says nothing about the generic "Church" or "Club" or "Organization" or "Fraternal Order".My "Church" is the Protestant Episcopal Church which is part of the Anglican Communion. Within that generic umbrella you will find racists. You will find homophobes. You will find sexists.You will also find a woman as Primate of the American Church, an openly gay Bishop, folk like Archbishop Desmond Tutu.The make up of the generic "Church" will reflect the population, good and bad.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Got you beat by an order of magnitude or more. They were almost all very white churches in very white communities, but many of them had small minorities of other races. I can't say I've ever seen any hint of racism in church. What do you mean?

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There are one or two other factors I can add on in addition to the racial percentages in a community.One would be tradition...having grown up in the Byzantine Rite of the RCC I never saw members of another race, and only very rarely members of any other white ethnicity in the congregation. Since this rite evolved from slavic origin and uses the language and customs of slavic people, it is unlikely that it will attract those without the common language background. Wihtout any attempt at segregation, other rites exist which evolved from other common ethnic backgrounds. In the Us there are areas where even within the same rite of Roman Catholicism, a particular ethnic group has built and maintained a church in the tradition of that culture, so you will find 'the Polish church' with the 'Irish' church down the street.In many Northern areas there is a vast majority of white and hispanic folk who are Catholic and a tiny fraction of black Catholics. Or, there is a vast majority of black Baptists and a tiny fraction of white Baptists, so the congregations will reflect the percent of people within that denomination, and not any racial motive. It might take another topic to determine why certain races have held to these traditional affiliations.I do remember last year bringing an African American non-Catholic to Christmas eve mass, in a predominately white neighborhood, and having him leave in the middle because he felt the church was 'too white', but this same church employs an African American sacristan and has an AA priest. He very well may have been more thrown by the catholic-ness more than the white-ness, but feeling alienated on both accounts was certainly enough to cause him to avoid future participation, and so the cycle continues.

I live in rural west Tennessee, and I don't know of any mixed race churches in the area, though I've only been to 15 or so. I've been to several all black churches here, and I was always welcomed grandly. The segregated churches simply represent the ongoing racial problem in our area.I will say that the restaurants, except a couple, generally have a mix of races that represents the area and the people always seem friendly. Yet in our own restaurant, we received numerous comments after we hosted a day at the park with a mix of black and white churches. In fact, our business fell off 30% for three weeks before coming back up. We were warned that "those people" would take over our village! Good heavens!The racial mix in churches tends to reflect the area, I think. I suspect our community's churches are pretty typical of the rural South.As for the OP, twenty churches is a pretty small sampling.

I tend to agree which was why I tried to separate the generic overarching Church from individual churches. I tried to point thta out in ... When you look at the makeup of individual churches you will find some that make an effort to be inclusive, that really work hard at it, some that market themselves on other factors, and some that will be very exclusionary. Yeah, I have had similar experiences. One parish I helped found built a small church right next to an old, old black Evangelical church. They were part of a circuit church where the pastor showed up once or twice a month for services. We approached them about having some joint services where a couple times a year they would join us and likewise, a couple times a year we would join them.The pastor was excited about the idea as our Priest was, but both congregations weren't all that happy with the idea. To get it started we finally decided that what we would do would be have both clergy lead services in the respective churches with each taking the lead role at their service.It worked out pretty well. Initially we would only get a few people from the foreign congregation in attendance, but gradually the idea caught on and we would get a fair sized turnout from both.I don't remember anyone ever changing membership, but it certainly did broaden the horizons of everyone who took part.So is there no racism in Churches? Of course there is. In fact anyone who has ever worked in a Vestry or other infrastructure capacity in a church will tell you that it can bring out some of the very worst traits of man.But is there also a spirit of inclusion? Certainly.As I said above, "The make up of the generic "Church" will reflect the population, good and bad."

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

{deleted by poster}Edited by Tazmanian Devil, : No reason given.

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AKA G.A.S.B.Y.George Absolutely Stupid Bush the Younger

anastasia writes: I imagine that would have the same effect on a lot of people. I'd have no idea what it was like to have been in his shoes. I wonder if anyone there made it a point to reach with a smile, and welcome him in. That would have sure relieved some of the anxiety.Although, I've never been to a traditional AA gospel-type church, my wife, her mom, our baby girl and I once attended a big Liberian wedding reception. We were the only white people there. There was also a language barrier, too. I gotta say it was a little unnerving, not knowing if our presence was off-putting to some. I'm a firm believer that what one puts forth gets reflected back. We all had a great time. The bar was self-serve...and talk about some good food.That would be much harder, if the races were reversed. I mean, sure, everyone has a fair chance at putting their best foot forward. But, let's face it. Europeans came to America, imposed their will, and spilled blood all over this land. In some ways, nothing has changed, except that the blood has turned to tears and rage. Slavery has become prison labor, from which more and more businesses are profitting. Our exchange rate with Mexico is so arbitrarily skewed that anybody, I mean anybody, would consider doing exactly what the bravest of them do, to seek a better life for their family.Where there were once millions upon millions of Native Americans prospering here, now there are only a handful left. Yet, people buy the story that most of them died from our diseases. If that were true, Europeans would have died from their diseases in equal numbers, as well. That didn't happen. To think that Americans have the gall complain about illegal immigration...where did the real "illegal" immigration occur?Today, we see many religious sects remain un-integrated, as they have been from the beginning, for understandable reasons. But, what does it amount to? Religion was used as the excuse for obliterating the culture that had previously existed. And, without even mentioning slavery in America, it's interesting to see how "God" seems to be resting on his laurels, here in the New World.So, yeah, the more pictures you have, or the more stories you want to share, the better. It would help me, if nothing else.

Ringo: You may not see it in plain view. At times, racism can be subtle, yet very effective. And, if the congregation is already segregated, the racism has already had its effect. I've heard that there are parts of the christian bible that call out for certain views against other religions.BTW, does creationism mean christianity?

What was the picture of, if you don't mind me asking?