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Author Topic:   Modern Civics
Phat
Member
Posts: 13713
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 1 of 236 (646703)
01-06-2012 9:19 AM


After watching a dialogue between jar and dogmafood concerning the reasons behind jars critique of his own country, I thought perhaps it time to start a topic on Civics.

Wikipedia writes:

Civics is the study of rights and duties of citizenship. In other words, it is the study of government with attention to the role of citizens ― as opposed to external factors ― in the operation and oversight of government.

It seems that modern politics is handicapped by an ignorant public who don't understand the issues and/or the history leading up to the thoughts and beliefs which form modern day politics.

I know that I am not well schooled in the reasoning behind the right wing and the left wing, nor do I even know why these divergent political philosophies even developed. Much of what I know or learn these days is from the internet, and I feel that citizens should play a more active role in policymaking.

Do any of you have any suggestions as to how we could reintroduce this discipline to an apathetic public?

Is there anything else that you feel should be part of a mandatory education in preparation for becoming a U.S. Citizen?


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Perdition, posted 01-06-2012 10:31 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 3 by mike the wiz, posted 01-06-2012 10:34 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 6 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-06-2012 11:51 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 8 by Artemis Entreri, posted 01-06-2012 1:49 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Perdition
Member (Idle past 1658 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


(1)
Message 2 of 236 (646718)
01-06-2012 10:31 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Phat
01-06-2012 9:19 AM


It seems that modern politics is handicapped by an ignorant public who don't understand the issues and/or the history leading up to the thoughts and beliefs which form modern day politics.

I would agree. What most people "know" is based on a clip they saw on the TV. The current crop of newscasters, on both sides of the spectrum, do a very poor job of informing people, they do a very good job of entertaining and scaring people.

I know that I am not well schooled in the reasoning behind the right wing and the left wing, nor do I even know why these divergent political philosophies even developed.

Quite shortly: The founding fathers didn't anticipate or desire political parties. However, even passing the constitution resulted in two poltical parties springing up in opposition of one another: the Federalists and the Anti-Federalists. From then on, it's mostly been a two-party system. The parties have changed and eveolved, but there has almost always been two dominant parties vying for control.

Do any of you have any suggestions as to how we could reintroduce this discipline to an apathetic public?

The problem is, how do you make an apathetic person interested? Especially when what they're interested in is spectacle. There's a reason our news anchors do a bad job of informing us...most of the public doesn't want to be informed, they want to be entertained.

Is there anything else that you feel should be part of a mandatory education in preparation for becoming a U.S. Citizen?

The people who have gone through the immigration procedure to become US citizens often know a very great deal about our country. In fact, they are often more well-informed on how the government works and why then the average natural born citizen. The people we need to focus on are not the immigrants, it's the locals.

Ultimately, the lack of public interest or knowledge of even their favorite candidates, especially in the era of instant, easy information leads me to think there should be a small quiz before voting. If you don't know the basic policy positions of the major people on the ballot, you shouldn't be able to vote. I don't want our country to be run by people who were elected by misinformed or uninformed masses simply because they were told to vote that way by their family, friends, or the TV.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Phat, posted 01-06-2012 9:19 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4668
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 3 of 236 (646720)
01-06-2012 10:34 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Phat
01-06-2012 9:19 AM


I think people with over-large muscles should be discounted from US citizenship.

I demand a Theocracy. Where Jesus Christ is the prime minister or the president. Personally I don't really place any hope in politics, for me they are an example of mankind in his fallen state.

Since the beginning, sin was not divergent, only stealthy and dark, it comes in many forms, remember, satan can appear as an agent of light, not darkness.

Mostly in the UK, the politicians simply go with the modern or fashionable and politically correct morals of the day. They don't actually have these morals, they just want to LOOK righteous.

True righteousess and fairness and justice comes from only one source.

Man is only ever an example of the failures of going it alone withou God, he has no depth, he only wants the advantage, so that he may gain what is favourable to his sinful nature, whether it be pride, power, riches.

"Set your sights on the realities of heaven", Phat, and don't worry too much about the mess down here.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7047
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 4 of 236 (646752)
01-06-2012 11:22 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by mike the wiz
01-06-2012 10:34 AM


Poe?
Is this a serious post or a Poe?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by mike the wiz, posted 01-06-2012 10:34 AM mike the wiz has responded

Replies to this message:
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mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4668
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 5 of 236 (646759)
01-06-2012 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Theodoric
01-06-2012 11:22 AM


Re: Poe?
It is a serious post with a very big dose of mikey-spin specifically intended for Phatboy to apreciate.

(He knows when I am being humouress to amuse him, but also making points to a fellow Christian that only we will likely understand.)

Don't be too troubled by mikey's temporarily diverse mega-matrix going into the top gear of irrefutability mode.


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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 6 of 236 (646765)
01-06-2012 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Phat
01-06-2012 9:19 AM


Do any of you have any suggestions as to how we could reintroduce this discipline to an apathetic public?

Yeah, good question. Because frankly, I just do not give a fuck about politics and I can't stand politicians.

Just let me know when its time to grab our guns...


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Replies to this message:
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Aware Wolf
Member
Posts: 155
From: New Hampshire, USA
Joined: 02-13-2009


(1)
Message 7 of 236 (646768)
01-06-2012 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by New Cat's Eye
01-06-2012 11:51 AM


Ever see Full Metal Jacket? It's always time to grab your gun!

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Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2649 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 8 of 236 (646780)
01-06-2012 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Phat
01-06-2012 9:19 AM


Do any of you have any suggestions as to how we could reintroduce this discipline to an apathetic public?

End birthright citizenship. If you cannot pass the test to prove that you understand the process and you do not have the knowledge or ability to understand the process, then you should also not be able to participate as a voter or public office holder.

Those that cannot, will not or refuse to pass the exam, still can maintain their resident status, but become exempt from many of the "extras" that are afforded to citizens.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Coragyps, posted 01-06-2012 2:32 PM Artemis Entreri has responded
 Message 13 by Perdition, posted 01-06-2012 2:55 PM Artemis Entreri has responded

  
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5438
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 9 of 236 (646793)
01-06-2012 2:32 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Artemis Entreri
01-06-2012 1:49 PM


And the eighth-generation American Tea Party people have to take the exam, too? And Texas legislators?

We may agree on something here..........


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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 236 (646796)
01-06-2012 2:40 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Coragyps
01-06-2012 2:32 PM


And the eighth-generation American Tea Party people have to take the exam, too? And Texas legislators?

Didn't we all already take it in, like, 8th grade?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Coragyps, posted 01-06-2012 2:32 PM Coragyps has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Artemis Entreri, posted 01-06-2012 2:47 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2649 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 11 of 236 (646798)
01-06-2012 2:43 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Coragyps
01-06-2012 2:32 PM


I was just taking a stab at a question posed by the OP.

When I was a kid in P.R. Illinois we had to take a civics exam to get out of junior high school, I remember that it was some sort of "big deal", but it was super easy.

And the eighth-generation American Tea Party people have to take the exam, too? And Texas legislators?

yes. being born "here" means you are a resident, you must earn your citizenship, by passing tests, or through some form of civil or military service (where you learn the required information in order to stay in the service). I think tea Partiers would pass with flying colors, I don't know much about TX legislators.

Edited by Artemis Entreri, : No reason given.


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Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2649 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 12 of 236 (646800)
01-06-2012 2:47 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by New Cat's Eye
01-06-2012 2:40 PM


I think a refresher should be necessary in order to keep your ability to vote, hold office, and receive a tax break (or some other incentive, I just think like a conservative so less tax is always on my mind). Like retaking the driving test, or continuing education that is required of people in the medical field, a certification program whereby you show you are still worthy of US Citizenship.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Perdition
Member (Idle past 1658 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 13 of 236 (646804)
01-06-2012 2:55 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Artemis Entreri
01-06-2012 1:49 PM


End birthright citizenship. If you cannot pass the test to prove that you understand the process and you do not have the knowledge or ability to understand the process, then you should also not be able to participate as a voter or public office holder.

Citizenship confers a lot more rights than just being able to vote or run for office. I'd be leery about taking away citizenship unless a test is passed...but voting rights are another thing entirely. I'm all for a test before being able to vote.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Artemis Entreri, posted 01-06-2012 1:49 PM Artemis Entreri has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Phat, posted 01-06-2012 4:19 PM Perdition has responded
 Message 19 by NoNukes, posted 01-06-2012 4:58 PM Perdition has responded
 Message 50 by Artemis Entreri, posted 01-09-2012 3:02 PM Perdition has responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 236 (646805)
01-06-2012 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Artemis Entreri
01-06-2012 2:47 PM


I think a refresher should be necessary in order to keep your ability to vote, hold office, and receive a tax break (or some other incentive, I just think like a conservative so less tax is always on my mind). Like retaking the driving test, or continuing education that is required of people in the medical field, a certification program whereby you show you are still worthy of US Citizenship.

Like perditions says, I don't think failing the test should strip you of all of your rights of citizenship. But yeah, for things like voting and holding office I'm totally with you.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Aware Wolf, posted 01-06-2012 3:29 PM New Cat's Eye has acknowledged this reply

  
Aware Wolf
Member
Posts: 155
From: New Hampshire, USA
Joined: 02-13-2009


Message 15 of 236 (646809)
01-06-2012 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by New Cat's Eye
01-06-2012 2:59 PM


Sounds a lot like one of the major concepts in Heinlein's Starship Troopers, only there it was military service that earned you the right to vote and hold office.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-06-2012 2:59 PM New Cat's Eye has acknowledged this reply

  
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