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Author Topic:   Slavery: Christian Excuses
Itinerant Lurker
Member (Idle past 851 days)
Posts: 67
Joined: 12-12-2008


Message 1 of 82 (649666)
01-24-2012 10:04 PM


Having entered into a discussion to dispel the myth that the OT only condones benevolent "debt-slavery" on a Christian forum I was shocked to encounter the below sentiments. Honestly, I really didn't think these types of views really existed anymore - the amount of intentional ignorance involved is simply astounding.

and

Lurker

Edited by Itinerant Lurker, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Coyote, posted 01-24-2012 10:20 PM Itinerant Lurker has not yet responded
 Message 8 by hooah212002, posted 01-25-2012 8:23 AM Itinerant Lurker has responded

    
Coyote
Member (Idle past 301 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 2 of 82 (649668)
01-24-2012 10:20 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Itinerant Lurker
01-24-2012 10:04 PM


Religious belief and other nonsense
On another website I had someone tell me, "It is not wrong to own a slave."

Apparently if it was OK with the bible, it was OK with him.

Sorry, this is absolute nonsense but it is not as rare as one might hope.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Itinerant Lurker, posted 01-24-2012 10:04 PM Itinerant Lurker has not yet responded

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 1487 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 3 of 82 (649669)
01-24-2012 10:37 PM


Poe's Law comes to mind. I sometimes honestly can't tell if these people are serious or parodying.

Added by edit.

You don't have to go far to see examples of this. Our very own buz continues to insist that the whities were doing the blackies a favor by kidnapping them from Africa, cramp them onto overcrowded ships, dumping half of them into the sea on their way to North America, and sell them off into American slave markets. Why? Because at least they were introduced to christ.

Don't believe me? Just ask buz himself.

Edited by Taz, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by frako, posted 01-25-2012 2:55 AM Taz has not yet responded
 Message 15 by Buzsaw, posted 03-04-2012 8:31 AM Taz has not yet responded
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frako
Member
Posts: 2814
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 4 of 82 (649679)
01-25-2012 2:55 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Taz
01-24-2012 10:37 PM


Because at least they were introduced to christ.

Yea and everyone knows the only way a black person can get to Heaven is if he is a slave, the mark of Cain is evident on them.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

This message is a reply to:
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Larni
Member
Posts: 3984
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 5 of 82 (649680)
01-25-2012 3:10 AM


Christian morality: priceless.

The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53

The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286

Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134


    
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 82 (649684)
01-25-2012 4:15 AM


Why so surprising?
Given a text that describes beating a slave so that he does not die in the same evening as the beating is administered as being lawful, and coupling that with a belief that the Torah is literally and inerrantly the Word of God as dictated to Moses, isn't it quite consistent that owning slaves might not be a sin.

I'm way over my Buzsaw comment quota for the year. Not going there. Oops, perhaps I just did...


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. The proper place to-day, the only place which Massachusetts has provided for her freer and less desponding spirits, is in her prisons, to be put out and locked out of the State by her own act, as they have already put themselves out by their principles. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6950
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.1


(9)
Message 7 of 82 (649698)
01-25-2012 7:06 AM


This is an oldie, but I enjoy reading it every so often.

Why Can't I Own a Canadian?

October 2002

Dr. Laura Schlessinger is a radio personality who dispenses advice to people who call in to her radio show. Recently, she said that, as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22 and cannot be condoned under any circumstance. The following is an open letter to Dr. Laura penned by a east coast resident, which was posted on the Internet. It's funny, as well as informative:

Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them:

When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15:19- 24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your devoted fan,
Jim

http://www.humanistsofutah.org/...ntIOwnACanadian_10-02.html


Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 17 days)
Posts: 3183
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 8 of 82 (649706)
01-25-2012 8:23 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Itinerant Lurker
01-24-2012 10:04 PM


That board layout looks a bit like LandoverBaptist. That's not the website where you are "discussing" this, are you?

“Mythology is what we call someone else’s religion.” Joseph Campbell

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Itinerant Lurker, posted 01-24-2012 10:04 PM Itinerant Lurker has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Larni, posted 01-25-2012 8:45 AM hooah212002 has acknowledged this reply
 Message 10 by Itinerant Lurker, posted 01-25-2012 10:06 PM hooah212002 has acknowledged this reply

    
Larni
Member
Posts: 3984
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 9 of 82 (649708)
01-25-2012 8:45 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by hooah212002
01-25-2012 8:23 AM


I honestly could not tell it that site was real or not, at first.

The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53

The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286

Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by hooah212002, posted 01-25-2012 8:23 AM hooah212002 has acknowledged this reply

    
Itinerant Lurker
Member (Idle past 851 days)
Posts: 67
Joined: 12-12-2008


Message 10 of 82 (649847)
01-25-2012 10:06 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by hooah212002
01-25-2012 8:23 AM


Ha, no. It was over on ourchristianforum.org

Here's the thread from the beginning (if you're interested):
http://www.ourchristianforum.org/index.php?topic=1233.0

With a particularly outlandish post claiming the OT actually safeguards slave's "inalienable rights" that got me into the discussion here:
http://www.ourchristianforum.org/index.php?topic=1233.msg...

Lurker

Edited by Itinerant Lurker, : No reason given.

Edited by Itinerant Lurker, : Missing ".org's"


This message is a reply to:
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Itinerant Lurker
Member (Idle past 851 days)
Posts: 67
Joined: 12-12-2008


Message 11 of 82 (654765)
03-03-2012 9:51 PM


Amendment of Ridiculous
Apparently I haven't seen it all. In discussing the reasons why the south seceded from the Union (thanks, by the way, to the participants of the "Why the South Seceded" thread here), I was informed that slaves didn't actually have their rights taken away because rights are inherent. Therefore, the south should have been left alone to eventually figure out that slavery was wrong or until the slaves cared enough to do something about it. I kid you not.

Here's where I completely lose my shit.

Lurker

Edited by Itinerant Lurker, : No reason given.

Edited by Itinerant Lurker, : No reason given.

Edited by Itinerant Lurker, : No reason given.


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ramoss
Member
Posts: 3111
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 12 of 82 (654767)
03-03-2012 11:20 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Itinerant Lurker
03-03-2012 9:51 PM


Re: Amendment of Ridiculous
My stepdaughter moved to texas to get to college, and one thing Texas does is insist people take the History of Texas classes, no matter what major.

She learned down there that blacks actually liked being slaves. Imagine that.

Or, at least that is was said in class by the teacher.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Itinerant Lurker, posted 03-03-2012 9:51 PM Itinerant Lurker has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by anglagard, posted 03-04-2012 4:54 AM ramoss has responded

  
anglagard
Member
Posts: 2199
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006
Member Rating: 6.2


Message 13 of 82 (654773)
03-04-2012 4:54 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by ramoss
03-03-2012 11:20 PM


Re: Amendment of Ridiculous
May I ask which part? Or, if willing to divulge, which college in Texas?

Edited by anglagard, : Desire for information


Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider. - Francis Bacon

This message is a reply to:
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Trixie
Member (Idle past 1901 days)
Posts: 1011
From: Edinburgh
Joined: 01-03-2004


(5)
Message 14 of 82 (654775)
03-04-2012 6:39 AM


Repugnant!
I'm finding this thread extremely disturbing. That there are people today who "can't say that owning a slave is a sin" and justfy that by quoting the bible makes me sick to my stomach!

We're already familiar with biblical literalists and the mental contortions they have to go through, such as denying science in just about every form it exists, or using a particular interpetation for one part of the bible then contradicting that interpretation for another part, or even outright "lying for Jeebus".

However, I'm shocked that, in order to maintain their inerrantist position, they are prepared to go as far as this! It's views like these that demonstrate the utter idiocy of claims of biblical inerrancy. Where do we find in the teachings of Jesus that it's OK to own and beat slaves? We don't. If the Gospels are inerrant and the OT is inerrant, then, Houston, we have a problem. We're left with the idea that God is capricious, doesn't remember what he's said previously, or does remember and doesn't give two hoots and expects his "children" to ever, ever break any of his rules, even when those rules are subject to change on a whim. And if, by following version 1 of His rules we are breaking a later version that we didn't know about, He'll make sure we're punished for all eternity.

The fact that this view of happy slaves, pleased to be slaves, is actually taught, as ramoss posted, is awful! How on earth can a college allow this to be taught? More to the point, how on earth can any right-thinking person, Christian, Jew, Atheist, Agnostic or any other flavor of religion you care to mention, know that this is being taught and do nothing about it?

All of us, everyone, has to expose this sort of repugnant belief for what it is.


Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by mike the wiz, posted 03-04-2012 5:14 PM Trixie has responded

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 82 (654781)
03-04-2012 8:31 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Taz
01-24-2012 10:37 PM


PRESSED WRONG BUTTON. STAY TUNED

Edited by Buzsaw, : No reason given.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

Someone wisely said something ;ike, "Before fooling with a fool, make sure the fool is a fool." :)


This message is a reply to:
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