Jefferson Bethke posted this video on YouTube a few weeks ago:
It received a great deal of attention, went viral, caused an uproar, and Bethke reversed his position. Today it became the topic of a NYT editorial: How to Fight The Man. Editorialist David Brooks states at one point:
David Brooks writes:
Bethke’s passionate polemic and subsequent retreat are symptomatic of a lot of the protest cries we hear these days. This seems to be a moment when many people in religion, economics and politics are disgusted by current institutions, but then they are vague about what sorts of institutions should replace them.
Brooks ignores the key question: why must religion be institutionalized?
Seems to me like Bethke caved under all the attention. I hope when the attention fades he realizes he's been hornswoggled by words and not deeds.
Bethke evidently respects fellow "believers" enough that he is trying to not offend them. I personally saw this video several weeks ago and was initially impressed with Bethkes rap, but also see no problem with him trying to make peace with the elders of his faith.
I see my belief in a personal relationship with Jesus as a statement that I want to have a lifelong dialogue with God.
Some may laugh at this apparent absurdity, but they are also the ones who see random chance as having power to influence anything, IMHO.
Kudos to Jefferson for his bold and artsy proclamation of faith and new-found awareness of what fame brings you.
Indeed. Even though he says he hates religion, that's not the impression I get from the video. Hell, at one point he even mentions (at around 2:20):
quote:I love the Church, I love the Bible and, yes, I believe in sin
Really? Well, what's so different about your beliefs and religion then?
But the real kicker comes near the end (at around 3:10):
quote:Christianty is god searching for man
So, let me get this straight... "Christianity" is not a religion?
And, most apallingly of all (at around 3:20):
quote:Because he took the crown of thorns and the blood dripped down his face He took what we all deserve, I guess that's why you call it grace
He took what we all deserve? He took what we all deserve? Really? We all deserve to be tortured and brutally beaten? Wow, your a font of compassion, aren't you?
He talks the talk, but he doesn't walk the walk. There is no reversal of position, his position was pro religion the entire time.
He talks the talk, but he doesn't walk the walk. There is no reversal of position, his position was pro religion the entire time.
Where the title says he hates religion he means religion as represented by the established religious institutions. The reversal of position concerned religious institutions, not personal religious beliefs.
Where the title says he hates religion he means religion as represented by the established religious institutions. The reversal of position concerned religious institutions, not personal religious beliefs.
Then he should be more clear, and attack the institutions. Now he is attacking "religion" which is exactly what he wants there to be. And as far as "institutions" are concerned, he literally admits to loving the church. So, he is against an institution he loves?
I only listened to the video once, but it did seem like his word choices weren't always the best. My impression was that he was expressing a love of the religion of Jesus and a hate of what it had become in the hands of its largest institutions.
Then he should be more clear, and attack the institutions. Now he is attacking "religion" which is exactly what he wants there to be. And as far as "institutions" are concerned, he literally admits to loving the church. So, he is against an institution he loves?
I think that's a petty quibble considering it's a spoken word. He very clearly was elucidating the institution of religion, and how it's usurped the message of Jesus. I get what the kid is trying to say, and I think many others do too, which is why it is resonating.
Because his message is so popular, he's been attacked by both sides. I've seen atheistic videos that make the same semantical argument about what religion is, therefore he's illogical. Petty.
Likewise, I just found this gem where even the papacy is chiming in and doing spin-off videos to combat it... no doubt protecting their bankroll. Also petty.
We don't demand that Poe clarifies the motives of the raven, do we?
I certainly would. If one has the desire to advocate a certain view, one should be plain as day about it. Not a person in the world did ever get thither he longed to be by using archaic vernacular in a most allegoric sense.
We don't demand that Poe clarifies the motives of the raven, do we?
Then I cried in desperation: "What the heck's your motivation, and what's the big attraction of the lintel of my door? Lest my temper should erupt, you tell me what the fuck you're up to What's the meaning of this visit, what the dickens is it for - What this corvine visitation can conceivably be for?" Quoth the raven, "Nevermore".
Seems to me like Bethke caved under all the attention.
I've seen a few video by this person. I didn't notice where he backtracked in his statements or beliefs. Do you have a video or something showing this?
And yes, Christianity is not religion. It is relationship. How many times do you or anyone need to hear this?
We have to apperantly accept that the TOE and abiogenesis are funamantaly different. Well so are religion and christianity. This person is arguing against the type of beliefs the pharisees had when they Crucified Jesus. That was religion and Jesus was preaching relationship and the religious crucified Him for it. There is a difference.
Chuck, how many times do YOU have to be told that your religion is just as wrong for a Muslim as theirs is to you. To an unbeliever not one is better or worse - they are all menaningless.
Just because you have been subjected to christianity from an early age or/and then later on to become a "born-again" is real to you but for me it bears no meaning. I have nothing against you believing or having a relationship to whatever but for you to force others to respect that is wrong. I do not respect any religion - there is absolutely nothing inherently worth respecting in any of them.
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