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Author | Topic: Evolution and Specialness of Humanity | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
joshua221  Inactive Member |
quote: Concerning human origins, I believe that all meaning and significance to life on earth, relationships with peers, and other humans is lost in the theory of evolution. I feel that I become part of "just another species", and any dignity, or specialness that I may have just loses all of it's value within evolution. What is there to live for, to strive to become, to live a "good" life when I am just a silly creature, without any value higher than that of any another organism's. I don't see the motivation this way. For this, I simply cannot accept evolution as the way things happen. Starting with a blank earth with basic elements, add energy, and more complex substances materialize, (Oparin's Hypothesis) from there over time the complexities increase, as shown clearly in the famous "Miller and Urey" experiment, re-done hundreds of times.
I can see the evidence, it's obviously there, within the Fossil Record it is plain as day. As sketchy as it is, the evidence simply sways towards evolution. But given the conditions of my environment, and how I feel inside humanity, evolution is false, and it is an expression of the forgotten God. Evolution attempts to make me feel small, not unique, to make everything insignificant, nothing matters in life, my discussions here are worthless, and when I die, I will lose my soul, and my shell will rot in the ground, Love becomes non-existant, and feeling for others is lost. I don't see it the world's way, and I never will, if bigfoot was found, and we could watch evolution happen somehow, I would never fall in to the illusion, I am special. This message has been edited by AdminAsgara, 10-04-2005 08:41 PM
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jar Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
So you would like to think you're special, that there is a GOD, is a Heaven, is Salvation?
This message has been edited by jar, 10-04-2005 08:58 PM Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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nwr Member Posts: 6409 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
Evolution attempts to make me feel small, not unique, to make everything insignificant, nothing matters in life, my discussions here are worthless, and when I die, I will lose my soul, and my shell will rot in the ground, Love becomes non-existant, and feeling for others is lost.
I have a different view of evolution. It tells me that "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" and "love your neighbor as yourself" really are our purpose in life. We are members of species that depends very much on one another. We do need each other. We are important to one another. So you really are very special, prophex. Did you follow What to believe, crisis of faith? Aztraph had some of the same concerns as you.
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JustinC Member (Idle past 4865 days) Posts: 624 From: Pittsburgh, PA, USA Joined: |
I never understood why it matters how we got to be the way we are. Specialness seems like it would be an inherent quality of an object, not something that hinges on its origins.
If we found out diamonds were made by a different process than the presently understood one, would it make them anyless special?
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coffee_addict Member (Idle past 498 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: |
On the contrary, I feel special knowing that my ancestors were able to survive the evolutionary process and achieved sentience while many others died.
Think of it this way. Say that you are a member of the French aristocracy. Would you have been more proud if your father wasn't an aristocrat and that he had to work really hard to get the family the title OR that your family had always been an aristocratic family for as long as civilization itself? For the first time in Earth's history, a species emerged from mere animals to building structures that lasted thousands of years. This species was able to use tools on a level that no other species had been able to. This species drew works of art on stone walls that depicted their culture and beliefs. In other words, they worked their way up to this point in time. I don't know about you, but I am damn proud of what humanity have been able to achieve while many other species who we believe also achieved sentience but never survived to tell the tale. When my family first came to the states, we were dirt poor and we were homeless. Heck, we were uneducated and we didn't know a word of English. Now, my oldest sister is an electrical engineer, my oldest brother is an architect, my older sister is a mathematician working for the government researching something about nuclear stuff... big secret (they actually sent federal agents to our house to ask question about her before they gave her access), and my older brother is a software engineer. I'm the spoiled one who is still in school. Should I be ashamed that we had a very humble beginning and start believing that god gave us all what we achieved or should I be proud that we worked really hard to get where we are? When I look at our species and what we have achieved (yes, the planet would have done better without us), I am always proud that we actually made it and not ended up extinct or still climbing trees and scratching each others' ABE But hey, if you'd rather deny your humble beginning and prefer to believe that all your most valuable possessions (knowledge and education) simply fell from the sky and landed on your head, more power to you! Some of us actually look back and feel proud of the hard work we have done. Just curious, do you also believe that god built the pyramids and other wonders of the world as well? After all, we mere humans couldn't have built such magnificent structures, right? This message has been edited by Jacen, 10-04-2005 11:26 PM
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Nuggin Member (Idle past 2514 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
So, let me get this straight. You agree that the evidence is there, but you don't want to believe in evolution because you think evolution means that you aren't important.
First problem - Where in evolution does it say that? How do you know that you aren't carrying "THE" gene? The immunity to the 2014 Avian Flu Pandemic, or whatever. You can have evolved and still be special. Second problem - There are SIX BILLION people on the planet. How special did you think you were in the first place?
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joshua221  Inactive Member |
quote: Wait, I know this book! (love your neighbor) Bible According to evolution, we need each other to survive, but I don't think of survival when I befriend someone, or when I talk with my friends. Any emotion involved becomes simply "part of the process", and does not retain it's beauty. empathy is non-existant as we reign terror on others
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joshua221  Inactive Member |
quote: Well they probably wouldn't be as rare, making them less sought after, elimintating the millions of years of pressure.
quote: Specialness doesn't hinge directly on how a certain thing came to be, but in our case with humanity I feel that it mos def does. The process of survival eliminates a meaningful result of humanity's stuggles, relationships. If the world knew or thought that it was really about survival, I doubt people would bother caring about anything, and Huxley's imagination would run wild. empathy is non-existant as we reign terror on others
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
quote: I know exactly how a rainbow forms, and can describe the process in terms of light refractions through air borne water droplets. I even have a copy of van der Hulst's seminal book on light scattering and can look up the internal reflections of light in the individual water droplets. But knowing all of this does not detract from the beauty of rainbows. In the same way, I know that my capacity for emotion and feelings (and perhaps even my sense of spirituality and my morality) can be explained through the natural selection of my ancient ancestors. But I nonetheless acknowledge my feelings and moral sense and continue to act on them. "Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt
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joshua221  Inactive Member |
quote: As much as this idea may excite you, I think it sucks. I would rather have a worthwhile destiny, to a worthwhile end. A worthwhile afterlife.
quote: A thought like this is demeaning to yourself, knowing that you think this, makes you one in six billion. People that change the world were more than your numbers, the world did not change them. I guess I think of myself differently. empathy is non-existant as we reign terror on others
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joshua221  Inactive Member |
quote: I couldn't live like that. You make it sound like you aren't unique. Just another organism going with the flow. Come on. empathy is non-existant as we reign terror on others
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Asgara Member (Idle past 2323 days) Posts: 1783 From: Wisconsin, USA Joined: |
Charlie, may I ask why such a low opinion of humanity? I really only see this in Christianity. It was Xianity that told me I was nothing, evolution shows me that I am very special and unique.
Xianity has brainwashed people into believing that without god they are worthless. People are so scared of being nothing that they will latch onto anything that promises to forgive them for it. You are basically saying that without god telling you how special you are, you are too stupid to figure it out on your own. You would be a sociopath, not caring about anything without some god telling you to. It is the same as the argument about morality. Without god telling you not to rape, pillage, and plunder would you be out there doing it all the time? The more I look at it the more it seems to me that it is XIANITY that robs us of feeling special. This message has been edited by Asgara, 10-05-2005 06:08 PM Asgara "I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now" select * from USERS where CLUE > 0 http://asgarasworld.bravepages.comhttp://perditionsgate.bravepages.com
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joshua221  Inactive Member |
You haven't done a thing, how can you be proud? You have a false feeling of rememberance to an hypothesized idea. I don't see how any of these emotions can be drawn out of a story of death, only the fit survive, not the true in spirit. Relating made-up stories of misery, and destruction ---> extinction of species to a family "rag to riches" story is a poor attempt to get me to see it your way. I don't see beauty in a species being erased, to the struggle to reproduce, there isn't anything there, in this idea, nothing magnificient, yet you seem to believe that you can actually see all of this as a triumph for your people. What about the less developed, the homo habilis', erectus', the neanderthal, are they meaningless too, because if what you believe is true, then I might feel depressed for the thousands who were simply "weaker", and "unfit". But I don't feel depressed, I feel rejuvenated in my beliefs from this log, I feel happy that I don't see it your way. That I don't agree to fall in with the "scientific community, and agree to give up my love for others, my loving relationships to "survival", to "social development", to "social human evolution".
Men's recorded and heavily followed ideas cannot demean God.
quote: There is no "looking back" my friend, you're "looking back" into the mind of a theorist, and the writings of recorded thought. Empathy for these "strugglers" can't exist. Especially if the struggle to present day itself is speculative, and certainly interpretive.
quote: Obviously you're joking, or trying to belittle me. This message has been edited by prophex, 10-05-2005 07:20 PM
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
quote: I've tried to respond to this, but I realized that I don't know what you mean by this. What do you mean by "you are/aren't unique", why is this important? How does the theory of evolution destroy this, and why is this bad? "Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt
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joshua221  Inactive Member |
quote: Evolution shows you that you are a result of lightning bolts striking a young earth. Christianity shows you that you were specifically created, with love, with reason.
quote: I don't know where you get this from... Without God, I am simply lost.
quote: Without me being an emulation, maybe. But God has never had to specifically order me not to attack someone, never had to tell me I was special, my point was that within evolution I have no uniqueness or specialness. The more I look at it, the more I realize that blind accpetance leads to a pretend passion for imaginary past events. empathy is non-existant as we reign terror on others
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