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Author Topic:   Seeing the forest among the trees: evolved entities invisible to human eyes
umliak
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 24 (279236)
01-15-2006 8:25 PM


If worms and other species cannot recognize sentient entities among them such as a worm among a human being or a dog, then us human beings in this evolving conglomeration (of energy that is the universe) cannot recognize many lifeforms among us. It is highly probable that human beings are as simple as worms, in a sense, and that angels and other entities walking among us may go undetected/misunderstood. Many people are too ignorant to recognize these presences of more "highly" evolved/complex beings, which one could call angels.
Let us recognize that no rule or promise exists stating the human beings are or ever have been, nor necessarily ever will be the most sentient and consciously evolved creatures on planet earth, let alone existence.
What other evolved entities, traits, senses, bodies, etc. exist? We might see a worm for its physical body, though the worm itself does not see this. What about us? What parts of ourselves are we ignorant to, like the worm? What sort of "eyes" do we lack? Does any entity look upon our minds (our consciousness and ignorance/unconsciousness) and see this as clearly as we might see a worm's physical body?
This message has been edited by umliak, 01-17-2006 12:49 PM

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by AdminNWR, posted 01-15-2006 8:57 PM umliak has not replied
 Message 9 by sidelined, posted 01-17-2006 2:25 PM umliak has not replied
 Message 10 by Buzsaw, posted 01-17-2006 8:32 PM umliak has not replied
 Message 11 by Jman, posted 01-17-2006 11:00 PM umliak has not replied
 Message 12 by hitchy, posted 01-17-2006 11:15 PM umliak has not replied
 Message 19 by mick, posted 01-23-2006 9:42 PM umliak has not replied

  
AdminNWR
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 24 (279252)
01-15-2006 8:57 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by umliak
01-15-2006 8:25 PM


Too long
Your OP (opening post) is too long. If people don't have the patience to read it, then you won't have much of a debate.
I tried reading you whole post. I read parts about worms. When I finally got to the end, I wondered how you would connect the worms to your main point.

There was no main point.

Your title mentions "angels", but nothing about angels was even mentioned in the post.
You need to
  • shorten your post. Aim for about 1/3 of its current length;
  • get to the point. Make sure there is a point, and that the point is clear to the reader;
  • make sure that the title matches what your argument is about.
I suggest that you edit your OP, so as to improve it. When you have finished editing, reply to this post to let us know that you are ready for it to be reconsidered.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by umliak, posted 01-15-2006 8:25 PM umliak has not replied

  
umliak
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 24 (279407)
01-16-2006 10:44 AM


I have shortened the post as suggested and added a point in big, colorful lettering.
This message has been edited by umliak, 01-16-2006 11:03 AM

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by AdminPhat, posted 01-16-2006 1:19 PM umliak has not replied

  
AdminPhat
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 24 (279454)
01-16-2006 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by umliak
01-16-2006 10:44 AM


1)Ditch the "Big, colorful lettering!"
2)You have a good point in regards to humans not using all of their potential senory apparatus, but your post is too vague...lets narrow the focus.
This message has been edited by AdminPhat, 01-16-2006 11:21 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by umliak, posted 01-16-2006 10:44 AM umliak has not replied

  
umliak
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 24 (279534)
01-16-2006 5:30 PM


It's not the average formatting/style/approach of a thread, but it will do.
If people want to read more of what I have to say on the matter, they may move on past the big colorful area, or just simply discuss the main point.
This message has been edited by umliak, 01-16-2006 05:41 PM

  
AdminBuzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 24 (279566)
01-16-2006 10:13 PM


This could be a very interesting and thought provoking subject. I would agree with AdminNWR and AdminPhat that it would be good to shorten your OP. I like the content of your boxed in opener and agree that it would be best for you to eliminate the box, especially for the opener. The message in it seems to pretty much cover what your topic appears to be. The problem with all the other is that with too much in the OP, it becomes more difficult for posting participants in the thread to ascertain what is on topic and what is not. There will be opportunity in later messages of the thread to say a lot of what you have said in your OP, some of which is almost repetitive of what you have boxed in.
Perhaps you could add a few of the points you think you need in the OP to what you have in the box and go with that. That's my 2cents worth. I'll leave the rest up to NWR who was the first Admin to respond.

  
umliak
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 24 (279669)
01-17-2006 12:54 PM


It has been greatly shortened, and I don't think it is too repetitious anymore, but that it addresses various observations and thoughts all people can relate to.
Thanks

  
AdminNWR
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 24 (279675)
01-17-2006 1:19 PM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5926 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 9 of 24 (279687)
01-17-2006 2:25 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by umliak
01-15-2006 8:25 PM


umliak
If worms and other species cannot recognize sentient entities among them such as a worm among a human being or a dog, then us human beings in this evolving conglomeration (of energy that is the universe) cannot recognize many lifeforms among us
Since the level of sentience appears to make worms incapable of recognizing that we are of greater mental capacity than they how does this mean that ther need also be entites of which we are incapable of recognizing.
It is highly probable that human beings are as simple as worms, in a sense, and that angels and other entities walking among us may go undetected/misunderstood. Many people are too ignorant to recognize these presences of more "highly" evolved/complex beings, which one could call angels.
Really!!?? Many people? And,of course,you {or others}, are somehow gifted with greater insight and thus able to recognize these"highly" evolved beings?
Can you spell arrogance?
Also can you explain to me the level of probabilty and the numbers you used to arrive at such a high level of confidencee?
Let us recognize that no rule or promise exists stating the human beings are or ever have been, nor necessarily ever will be the most sentient and consciously evolved creatures on planet earth, let alone existence.
Jeez that was a hard statement to make.No rule or promise, are you sure? Say it with me... DUH!!!
What other evolved entities, traits, senses, bodies, etc. exist? We might see a worm for its physical body, though the worm itself does not see this. What about us? What parts of ourselves are we ignorant to, like the worm? What sort of "eyes" do we lack? Does any entity look upon our minds (our consciousness and ignorance/unconsciousness) and see this as clearly as we might see a worm's physical body?
So far you have nothing but a predisposed supposition to the existence of undetected/misunderstood entities that may or may walk among us but that we are to ignorant/incapable of recognizing.
You do not appreciate that the problem is not whether it is or is not possible but,rather,whether it is going on or not.
I am sure you can show us evidence for these entities since you are the one claimimg that such beings exist?
This message has been edited by sidelined, Tue, 2006-01-17 12:28 PM

But I realize now that these people were not in science; they didn’t understand it. They didn’t understand technology; they didn’t understand their time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by umliak, posted 01-15-2006 8:25 PM umliak has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 24 (279752)
01-17-2006 8:32 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by umliak
01-15-2006 8:25 PM


umliak writes:
If worms and other species cannot recognize sentient entities among them such as a worm among a human being or a dog, then us human beings in this evolving conglomeration (of energy that is the universe) cannot recognize many lifeforms among us. It is highly probable that human beings are as simple as worms, in a sense, and that angels and other entities walking among us may go undetected/misunderstood. Many people are too ignorant to recognize these presences of more "highly" evolved/complex beings, which one could call angels.
I've aluded to this possibility relative to ID creationism also, that modern science may some day discover that there exists intelligent beings in the universe of a higher dimension, beings which may even be among us as depicted in the Bible.

Gravity is God's glue that holds his universe together.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by umliak, posted 01-15-2006 8:25 PM umliak has not replied

  
Jman
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 24 (279778)
01-17-2006 11:00 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by umliak
01-15-2006 8:25 PM


we are but mindless.......... worms?
Many great truths you hint at in your questions. As a preliminary statement I'd like to say that when, in the history of man, has an invention which could be misused not been developed first to be used as a weapon of war?
This is a testimonial to our state of evolution, a damning one. There are many on Earth who have, through long years of delibrate practice, achieved a higher level of consciousness and have the ability to move freely in the world of causes while posing no threat to their younger brothers who remain buried in strife. This growth has to self-initiated. One must learn to recognize the tendency of the Earth to manifest only in extremes of polarity. The next step is to, without using the desire mind, cultivate harmlessness. The signposts along this path include the neutralization of emotionalism, the cultivation of the abstract mind and the evaporation of all fear. There is much more to say in the area but the student must prove him/herself unfailingly. When the fires of the emotional lives are only a memory, vision is enhanced and the mind perceives worlds previously unknown. Danger here. No drugs or alcohol, no engaging in metaphysical activities which would offer even more pitfalls. Purity is required and cannot be faked to those who can see our auras.
The human souls exist in their own realm, being only attached to these bodies which seem so important to us, and a personality is only another attribute with no permanence.
Angels exist in their own evolutionary cycles and are not human. They assist us as intermediaries as ordained by God. The souls of minerals, plants and animals are also kept seperate. They too evolve in harmony with God's created evolutionary universe. We wonder is there is any other life in the universe when truly, there is nothing but life for all is a part of God. This is God behind the various religious themes, unfettered and accessable, free of tainting dogma.
Everything is in order. Recognize that all is chaotic on Earth but not in our true home.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by umliak, posted 01-15-2006 8:25 PM umliak has not replied

  
hitchy
Member (Idle past 5136 days)
Posts: 215
From: Southern Maryland via Pittsburgh
Joined: 01-05-2004


Message 12 of 24 (279785)
01-17-2006 11:15 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by umliak
01-15-2006 8:25 PM


Interesting, but...
...let's go back to where these unobservable things come from. If we lack the ability to recognize the presence of these "more 'highly' evolved/complex beings...angels" then where did the idea that these things existed in the first place come from?
You also seem to be creating a fallacious argument by stating that "many people are too ignorant to recognize these...angels." So, if we cannot detect these so-called "angels", we are ignorant, but people that can detect them are not! I have an invisible pink elephant in my garage that no one else can detect, but those who cannot see Pinky are just ignorant.
I take it that you have recognized angels somehow?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by umliak, posted 01-15-2006 8:25 PM umliak has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Buzsaw, posted 01-18-2006 6:53 PM hitchy has not replied

  
umliak
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 24 (279927)
01-18-2006 6:28 PM


quote:
...let's go back to where these unobservable things come from. If we lack the ability to recognize the presence of these "more 'highly' evolved/complex beings...angels" then where did the idea that these things existed in the first place come from?
The idea that other living and conscious, albeit less conscious/aware beings exist among humans, evolving at equally the same time and rate, although perhaps less genetic changes compared to other entities, which have become so vastly different they even form species, indicates that perhaps even to the other creatures' ignorance to our existence, so likewise we may be very less conscious.
Furthermore, men have sensed and experienced many abnormal phenomena over the years, but due to many people's uncertainty/closure on an issue, they often ward these things out of their life or reason them up to some other, unconscious force.
We know that we can intermingle and affect other lifeforms greatly, even to their own lack of great sentient awareness to our doings. It is reasonable to take the same concept of this and apply to other things, even as a person may adaptively apply the concept of math to money exchange and other things which allow us to grow as a civilization and achieve/confirm mere suspicions.
At first glance, one might reason, "Well, wherever these ideas came from, without total proof they must make no sense!" Even so, men with great aspirations are evolving quickly, putting their minds together and using technology to assist them in proving their intuitive suspicions--which are merely concepts applied to other aspects of life.
So, it is not crazy nor uncommon for anyone to do so, and likewise using this same correlation of our "greatness to
quote:
You also seem to be creating a fallacious argument by stating that "many people are too ignorant to recognize these...angels." So, if we cannot detect these so-called "angels", we are ignorant, but people that can detect them are not! I have an invisible pink elephant in my garage that no one else can detect, but those who cannot see Pinky are just ignorant.
I take it that you have recognized angels somehow?
I have recognized angels more so, and it is not fallacious to make a claim about people's ignorance. If you only knew how ignorant most of us are, and I am too, you would realize it is not so crazy to expand beyond that. We can detect angels, anyhow, and they affect us so much that we hardly even notice it. Many people take it for granted. Yet, whatever source/body contains all the elements, all the laws of physics, upholds them consistently (their concepts, rules, and applications), all the atoms, etc. and whatever continue to force the wind to move and doesn't stop all of existence from flowing and evolving must be some living source.
One could call this God, but I also believe everything is God, so one must question whether these forces form various actual bodies. And, whatever these obvious systematic bodies are, they must be highly evolved, complex entities.
The fact that the repetitious patterns such as the evolving of a brain, arms, muscles, leaves, flowers, fruits, seeds, etc. exists among so many entities and which evolves likewise in separated lineages and species, as well as the fact that many creatures also evolve to have a sentience at all despite the separate geneologies tells you there is some sort of design going on here/background "script". Whatever it is, it all spirals up to tell you that this universe fits into together entirely. To me it is obvious that for consciousness to exist at all, especially so repetitively, it must be included in the elements. There must be an element of consciousness.
So, it is not that people cannot detect angels, but that they take them for granted, and in doing so they often willingly reject help, including moving into fears and disbeliefs about certain things, the way things work, etc. It is a miracle to me that everything continues on as it does.
What is the source that causes the laws of physics to be upheld? How about the concept of freedom and balance which is in so many aspects of life?
Many animals respond to these with instinct and fear. A cat will instinctely run from a dog, chase a mouse, a baby will instinctively cry, etc. How do things occur? Many people will instinctively respond to rain, to other forces. A fetus deals with the fetal life in the womb, with all its limitation, however it would. People just deal with the environment, often just not recognizing the reality of life.
Men can notice cells and the life of animals and plants, but even as a fetal baby, men are limited. There are inherent limitations wherever you go, so you can never rule out the fact that whatever it is we call life may not be the total understanding of what consciousness comes from. For instance, a fetus can understand life in a certain aspect, but ultimately, it cannot recognize cells, and so it is limited. Further yet, men can recognize cells, but what else can we not recognize? A fetus has no external tools like us nor means of discovering and understand the universe as we do.
We're just more mature and capable. Furthermore, lesser intelligent creatures and even people are incapable of understanding a lot of what humanity has in text and mind.
So, while we know a lot, it is always inherently true that we're ignorant. I never also suggested I am a highly skilled angel-psychic.
Wherever your bitter and envious assumptions came from, they are unfounded in regard to my original post. This post is for those who may be willing to open their minds up to angels by using elementary concepts. Spirituality is always a process, no one should be expected to just simply believe in God and the likes like many dogmatic religions try to force onto people. God is not angry with anyone, nor does God punish you and want you to be ashamed for being learning children. God does not want any baby person to feel stupid for having to learn a language and the parts of life. There is patience while you grow up, why would God demand that you believe something that you just can't understand?
So I oblige you to read my post and apply it to yourself. Recognize the limitations in all creatures and entities, and even in me and yourself. We are ignorant greatly, and it's nothing to be annoyed nor angered, envied, and jealous about. The universe is now welcoming you to step outside of your ignorance and see for yourself.
It is not bad being a worm, the worm is what it is and should enjoy living its purpose. You too should enjoy it whatever it is. No one is asserting you should be stabbed with a hook and used for bait. No, for a worm this is a beneficial experience, but for people that will not be necessary as it would be traumatic and extreme for us.
So, don't be afraid nor feel ashamed because of this. Worms should be content being worms, and evolving to something more. A plant serves its purpose by feeding the ecosystem. Without the plant other life dies, so angels need people as well because we are like plants to them. We are their food, they need us. Without us, they are nothing because they have not much to do. Billions of angels are willing to help you. Just call on them. Unemployed angels, they are bored and are waiting for us.
People would be bored without plants and without animals, without cells. All life is valuable

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Larni, posted 01-19-2006 8:59 AM umliak has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 24 (279932)
01-18-2006 6:53 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by hitchy
01-17-2006 11:15 PM


Re: Interesting, but...
hitchy writes:
...angels" then where did the idea that these things existed in the first place come from?
The existence of angels is a Biblical doctrine. Some religions have the concept of 'spirits,' though they're not called angels, so far as I am aware. The Bible refers to both good and evil angels, usually referring to the evil ones as evil spirits, demons or devils. It says somewhere that a third of the angels rebelled with Lucifer.
Whether they actually exist would depend on the credibility of the Bible. We do have the fulfilled prophecies. We also have those who've claimed encounters with either good or evil spirits. I was once attacked in a dream by an evil spirit which in my dream I rebuked in the name of Jesus, immediately after which it shriveled up and vanished through the wall. I can't, of course, prove that to anyone, but I knew after awaking what it was and that it was more than a dream.
Scientists study particles which appear and disappear. It is said that they come in and out of existence. According to scripture, angels do that also. If a scientist were to abserve one appearing and disappearing, that also might be said to be coming in and out of existence. Could it be that particles do not come in and out of existence, but like the Biblical angels, simply move in and out of a higher dimension of what actually exists in the universe?

Gravity is God's glue that holds his universe together.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by hitchy, posted 01-17-2006 11:15 PM hitchy has not replied

  
Larni
Member (Idle past 182 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 15 of 24 (279972)
01-19-2006 8:59 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by umliak
01-18-2006 6:28 PM


That just seems to be a nice way of thinking if you really want to believe in angels. My personal feeling is that we (humans) are top of the pile on this planet. Do you think it is posible to believe in angels if there are, in fact no angels?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by umliak, posted 01-18-2006 6:28 PM umliak has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by umliak, posted 01-22-2006 4:43 PM Larni has replied

  
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