Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 57 (9175 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: Neptune7
Post Volume: Total: 917,636 Year: 4,893/9,624 Month: 241/427 Week: 51/103 Day: 9/11 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Aurora Colorado Violence
Phat
Member
Posts: 18389
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 1 of 236 (668359)
07-20-2012 9:38 AM


Breaking Story
Gunman turns movie into surreal horror: 'This is real'
A movie theater that my family and I have visited many times was the scene of a violent and life changing event last night.
Tomorrow it will be all over the news and it will be all anyone hears about ---at least here in Denver. My prayers go out to the victims....they will never again feel safe in a movie theater.
It makes me angry.... They ought execute the suspect, but in time we will learn why this loon did such a thing....apart from making a name for himself.
Edited by AdminPhat, : clarification and added link.

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by vimesey, posted 07-20-2012 9:42 AM Phat has replied

  
vimesey
Member (Idle past 157 days)
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


Message 2 of 236 (668360)
07-20-2012 9:42 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Phat
07-20-2012 9:38 AM


I was reading the reports on the news channel just now, and hadn't put your location and the news reports together Phat.
It's a truly awful event - there are unconfirmed reports at the moment of a 3 month old baby being amongst the wounded.
I suspect you know the cinema in question, and it must bring it home all the more strongly.
The victims and their families have my deepest sympathies.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Phat, posted 07-20-2012 9:38 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Phat, posted 07-20-2012 9:50 AM vimesey has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18389
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 3 of 236 (668361)
07-20-2012 9:50 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by vimesey
07-20-2012 9:42 AM


Violence Hits Home
The theater is in Aurora, which is a suburb of Denver, where I live. My family and I have seen movies at the theater before, and the area was normally quite peaceful. I dont own a TV, or I imagine that the entire days news will be filled with reports from the crime scene. They now say that 12 died...instead of 14...many of them children. This brings back memories of the first day that I heard about the Columbine shootings. I was at the dentist and the news was just becoming public.
Initially, in a breaking news story, people are numb to the reality of the magnitude of the situation, since we see and hear of shootings everywhere ...virtually all of the time...on and in the news media. As the reporters begin to write more personal stories...stories of the families and of the victims...the sobering reality of the violent culture that we live in begins to sink in, and I think that all of us will feel this as this story is magnified and detailed in the media.
I don't know if I or anyone else will feel quite the same...out in public with our families...ever again. My prayers go out to the many victims. In a sense, we all are victims by extension.
Add by edit: I wont post any videos (which are numerous) since all of you will soon see and hear plenty of news about this.
Edited by Phat, : added

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by vimesey, posted 07-20-2012 9:42 AM vimesey has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by vimesey, posted 07-20-2012 10:02 AM Phat has replied

  
vimesey
Member (Idle past 157 days)
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


(3)
Message 4 of 236 (668362)
07-20-2012 10:02 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Phat
07-20-2012 9:50 AM


Re: Violence Hits Home
I am sure that it will have a huge impact on everyone in your community, for years to come.
This tragedy will, naturally enough, raise some questions, and being the community that we are et EvC, I am sure that we will want to debate those questions.
And, (also given the community that we are at EvC), I hope that we might want to postpone such debate for 24 hours, out of respect.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Phat, posted 07-20-2012 9:50 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by AdminPhat, posted 07-20-2012 10:20 AM vimesey has not replied
 Message 6 by Phat, posted 07-21-2012 11:15 AM vimesey has not replied

  
AdminPhat
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 236 (668364)
07-20-2012 10:20 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by vimesey
07-20-2012 10:02 AM


Re: Violence Hits Home
I hope that we might want to postpone such debate for 24 hours, out of respect.
Agreed. I will close it for 24 hours and open it up again tomorrow.
Edited by AdminPhat, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by vimesey, posted 07-20-2012 10:02 AM vimesey has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18389
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 6 of 236 (668451)
07-21-2012 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by vimesey
07-20-2012 10:02 AM


Re: Violence Hits Home
By now, the news media has thoroughly covered the story, yet the names of the victims are only now being gathered. Again, our prayers go out to them.
Also, already I have heard a conspiracy theory about how the government set this up (totally baseless and ridiculous) as well as stories about the gunman and his intelligence. I am happy not to own a television, for I select the news that I absorb via my computer.
My early conclusions regarding this tragedy?
1) Changing gun laws won't stop these types of incidents, though the criteria as to what types of guns are allowed to be purchased might be considered.
2) Just because it is a disturbed white guy, it is as much an act of terrorism as it would be had the shooter been black and/or Muslim.
3) People will be ever more willing to trade in personal freedoms for greater public security...and our society will continue to change.
4) There are no easy answers in faith to tell people. I believe, for the record, that God had nothing to do with this, nor any sort of devil, though some fundamentalist friends whom I know would argue the latter to be the case.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by vimesey, posted 07-20-2012 10:02 AM vimesey has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by hooah212002, posted 07-21-2012 11:51 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 8 by Jon, posted 07-21-2012 11:52 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 168 by Buzsaw, posted 07-24-2012 5:23 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 217 by Artemis Entreri, posted 07-26-2012 7:34 PM Phat has not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 886 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


(2)
Message 7 of 236 (668452)
07-21-2012 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Phat
07-21-2012 11:15 AM


Re: Violence Hits Home
2) Just because it is a disturbed white guy, it is as much an act of terrorism as it would be had the shooter been black and/or Muslim.
I guess the word "terrorism" is has been thoroughly bastardized and is now completely meaningless if every act of violence is considered as such. The masses only give a shit when a bunch of white people are murdered. Gun shots ring out daily in the ghetto, is THAT terrorism? Does that pull on the heart strings of ANYONE?
3) People will be ever more willing to trade in personal freedoms for greater public security...and our society will continue to change.
Of course they will if every act of violence is labeled terrorism and we have a "war on terror" and every news outlet feeds the masses that the only way to fight this "war" is to give up freedoms.
4) There are no easy answers in faith to tell people. I believe, for the record, that God had nothing to do with this, nor any sort of devil, though some fundamentalist friends whom I know would argue the latter to be the case.
Faith and imaginary friends had as much to do with this as did Osama Bin Laden. The kid was mentally ill and his sickness was ignored and untreated. Plain and simple.
{abe}
Salon writes:
America is a violent country — our homicide rate is four to 12 times higher than that in more civilized parts of the world — and Aurora, Colo., is more violent than the average American town. A down-market suburb of Denver, it sees an average of about 20 of its 325,000 residents murdered each year.
Salon writes:
A lot of people — about 15,000 at present — get murdered in the United States every year. Most of these people get killed in places that, roughly speaking, look something like Aurora: places where the people are poorer and less white than in America in general, and who are therefore by definition not very interesting or important.
Of course these rules don’t hold if some lunatic kills a dozen people at once, especially in a normally innocuous public space, such as a multi-screen movie theater, which interesting and important people can picture themselves within. So today murder in Aurora, Colo., is an interesting and important topic.
Salon writes:
If we faced any kind of real terrorist threat, incidents like the Aurora shooting (except with a political motive) would happen all the time, since, again, there’s nothing that can be done to stop them.
Linky
Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.

"Science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off." -Dawkins

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Phat, posted 07-21-2012 11:15 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 8 of 236 (668453)
07-21-2012 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Phat
07-21-2012 11:15 AM


Re: Violence Hits Home
1) Changing gun laws won't stop these types of incidents, though the criteria as to what types of guns are allowed to be purchased might be considered.
2) Just because it is a disturbed white guy, it is as much an act of terrorism as it would be had the shooter been black and/or Muslim.
3) People will be ever more willing to trade in personal freedoms for greater public security...and our society will continue to change.
4) There are no easy answers in faith to tell people. I believe, for the record, that God had nothing to do with this, nor any sort of devil, though some fundamentalist friends whom I know would argue the latter to be the case.
You've got four different threads there. Which will this one be?

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Phat, posted 07-21-2012 11:15 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 3035 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


(1)
Message 9 of 236 (668524)
07-22-2012 2:10 PM


Death penalty
Anyone against giving this guy the death penalty?
- Oni

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Jon, posted 07-22-2012 2:38 PM onifre has not replied
 Message 11 by Rahvin, posted 07-22-2012 2:42 PM onifre has replied
 Message 12 by jar, posted 07-22-2012 3:56 PM onifre has replied
 Message 13 by Granny Magda, posted 07-22-2012 4:53 PM onifre has replied
 Message 14 by vimesey, posted 07-22-2012 5:02 PM onifre has replied
 Message 23 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-22-2012 9:36 PM onifre has replied
 Message 25 by crashfrog, posted 07-22-2012 9:51 PM onifre has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


(3)
Message 10 of 236 (668526)
07-22-2012 2:38 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by onifre
07-22-2012 2:10 PM


Re: Death penalty
Anyone against giving this guy the death penalty?
Me.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by onifre, posted 07-22-2012 2:10 PM onifre has not replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4046
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 4.1


(3)
Message 11 of 236 (668528)
07-22-2012 2:42 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by onifre
07-22-2012 2:10 PM


Re: Death penalty
Me. Another dead person would solve nothing but your bloodlust. It wouldnt bring a single victim back to life or heal a single injury. Two wrongs dont make a right.

The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.
- Francis Bacon
"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers
A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity. — Albert Camus
"...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of
variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the
outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." Barash, David 1995.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by onifre, posted 07-22-2012 2:10 PM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by onifre, posted 07-22-2012 8:59 PM Rahvin has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34060
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.9


(4)
Message 12 of 236 (668535)
07-22-2012 3:56 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by onifre
07-22-2012 2:10 PM


Re: Death penalty
Me. Far too expensive and solves nothing.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by onifre, posted 07-22-2012 2:10 PM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by onifre, posted 07-22-2012 9:10 PM jar has replied

  
Granny Magda
Member (Idle past 123 days)
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007


(4)
Message 13 of 236 (668538)
07-22-2012 4:53 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by onifre
07-22-2012 2:10 PM


Re: Death penalty
Killing him won't solve anything. The little shit claims he's the Joker. I say send him to Arkham.
Mutate and Survive

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by onifre, posted 07-22-2012 2:10 PM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by onifre, posted 07-22-2012 9:12 PM Granny Magda has replied

  
vimesey
Member (Idle past 157 days)
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


(5)
Message 14 of 236 (668539)
07-22-2012 5:02 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by onifre
07-22-2012 2:10 PM


Re: Death penalty
Well, first of all, we do need to go through the trial. I know they've caught him, I know the evidence we've seen in the media seems overwhelming, I know it's been reported that his flat was booby-trapped, etc, but it is important for due process to take place. Niceties, perhaps, but important ones.
However, if we assume he is found guilty, I am personally still against the death penalty. It's hard to maintain a deterrence argument, when your future perpetrator is highly likely to be deranged - and as a society, I still like to feel that we are better than that.
I do understand the desire to put people to death, if they themselves commit murder, but to preserve our own aspirations at civilization, and to prevent even one innocent person being put to death, I would still cast my vote not to have a death penalty.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by onifre, posted 07-22-2012 2:10 PM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by onifre, posted 07-22-2012 9:19 PM vimesey has not replied
 Message 31 by CosmicChimp, posted 07-23-2012 11:04 AM vimesey has not replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 3035 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 15 of 236 (668576)
07-22-2012 8:59 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Rahvin
07-22-2012 2:42 PM


Re: Death penalty
Another dead person would solve nothing but your bloodlust.
Well my 'bloodlust' does not influence the verdict or sentence. Colorado state law does. They have the death penalty, so it is a punishment that's available.
It wouldnt bring a single victim back to life or heal a single injury.
No sentence would do that. But you're not suggesting we don't punish him because the victims won't come back to life, right?
You agree that there should be some form of punishment?
Two wrongs dont make a right.
The death penalty is legal in the state of Colorado, so I don't see how that can be a "wrong" just like slaughtering 12 people and wounding how ever many more is a "wrong".
One's legal, one is a horrendous act of violence.
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Rahvin, posted 07-22-2012 2:42 PM Rahvin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Rahvin, posted 07-22-2012 9:06 PM onifre has replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024