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Author | Topic: Christianity is Morally Bankrupt | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
GrimSqueaker Member (Idle past 2028 days) Posts: 137 From: Ireland Joined: |
I am not trying to offend simply to converse and have some of my own questions answered, i feel i may have hijacked the Morality thread elsewhere and feel this conversation could perhaps do with its own discussion.
So I propose that Christianity is essentially a morally bankrupt system. My reasoning is as follows; 1 - Devine atonement for Sin is a moral loop hole. 2 - Heaven and Hell are Unjust. 3 - Vicarious Redemption. 4 - Freedom of Choice. 5 - Original Sin and Sins of the Father. 6 - Thought Crimes. There are undoubtedly more examples and these can be hugely expanded upon but I feel this is probably enough of a jumping off point. Probably a hugely offensive subject but one I very much would like to debate. Thanks ****************************** Edit/Addition : For the sake of clarity I'm gonna add the kicker that I am only currently finding issue with Christian doctorians which believe the above - it has been abundantly pointed out to me that not all Christians hold all of these beliefs, if a Christian does hold any or all of these beliefs please join the debate - conversly if a Christian holds none of these beliefs as true please join anyway but be aware I'm not currently taking you to task on your beliefs as I clearly have no idea what you believe. But by all means let's me know what you do believe and I'd be happy to debate that, or better yet get your opinion on the above practices as I'm sure we have some common groud on our disapproval of some issues Edited by GrimSqueaker, : No reason given. Reason > Belief Even if we dont agree find me on Facebook, always happy to have new friends
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Admin Director Posts: 12653 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.9 |
Thread copied here from the Christianity is Morally Bankrupt thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.
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kofh2u Member (Idle past 2160 days) Posts: 1162 From: phila., PA Joined: |
I agree. Abortions by Religious Affiliation: We will disagree on the issue of whether these christians are failing the dogma which teaches Sexual Prudence, virginity before marriage, sex only in marriage, no divorce, adultery is a crime, Homiosexualk oropaganda is a social evil, publuc near/nakedness an invitation, TV and Holloywood are pornograpers, Welfare System is a Social problem, etc.
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GrimSqueaker Member (Idle past 2028 days) Posts: 137 From: Ireland Joined: |
I don't so much care about the particularities of interpretation of dogma in this context, the very corner stones are degraded and corrupt.
We can argue whether the bible means Homosexuality is wrong or not but that argument is moot if the biblical god and system of belief are inherently flawed Edit : upon reflection I should probably address ur issue of promiscuity - so long as people r safe and happy why does it matter? Sex is one of the best things about being human, I've slept with damn near every kind of girl in every kind of way and I can happily say my life is better for it Edited by GrimSqueaker, : No reason given.
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subbie Member (Idle past 84 days) Posts: 3509 Joined:
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I'd be curious to see your source for those figures, because they look fishy.
Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung
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jar Member Posts: 31771 From: Texas!! Joined: Member Rating: 2.6 |
As a Cradle Creedal Christian raised in a Christian household and educated in Christian schools I'd agree that Christianity such as what you describe would be morally bankrupt and really really silly to boot.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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GrimSqueaker Member (Idle past 2028 days) Posts: 137 From: Ireland Joined: |
Can u please educate me where I am wrong, I was raised as a Christian too, and I went to Christian schools until I was 18 - and I can't see where I am
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Jazzns Member (Idle past 2252 days) Posts: 2657 From: A Better America Joined:
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It is not just an issue of being compelled to believe. In some versions of Christianity, your salvation is pre-ordained. Essentially, some Christians believe that God created some people for the sole purpose of being eternally punished. I came to appreciate some of Hitchen's arguments after I had become an atheist and one in particular sticks with me. This is of course once you dispense with the nonsense that is young earth creationism. Mankind in its mostly modern form has been on the earth for perhaps hundreds of thousands of years. In that time we have suffered, died, lived in ignorance and fear of the unknown for the vast majority of this time. All that time a God in heaven looked down upon his creation and did nothing. Then in the only the last few thousand years, when humans had only the most rudimentary and error prone methods of recording information, that THEY developed with massive trial and error over this expanse of time, only then does God finally say, "enough is enough, we need to do something about the salvation of humans." It makes me think back to some young earth claims that once you include deep time, that it destroys the foundation of their religion. I used to think that they were just being sticklers but now that I think about it, they might be right. If we long for our planet to be important, there is something we can do about it. We make our world significant by the courage of our questions and by the depth of our answers. --Carl Sagan
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jar Member Posts: 31771 From: Texas!! Joined: Member Rating: 2.6
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As I said, it depends on the bylaws of whichever Chapter of Club Christian you were raised in.
In your OP you said:
I agree, and that is why every service in the Chapter of Club Christian I belong to has a process to address that. The first step is to become aware of the wrongs you do, to acknowledge those wrongs particularly to yourself, to try to make atonement and to try not to repeat the mistakes.
Heaven and hell are neither just nor unjust. Again, what a particular Chapter of Club Christian teaches about heaven and hell may well be. But very little of that is justified Biblically.
Again, I agree. As a Christian I find that concept belittles and trivializes Jesus as well as turns Christianity into a cheap "what's in it for me; I got my 'get outta hell card' " religion.
That says little about Christianity but does make GOD out to be a real asshole. But it's an easy sell and so is marketed by many Chapters of Club Christian. But not ALL Chapters of Club Christian.
Yup. There is really only very, very weak to non-existent support in the Bible for the concept of Original Sin. Again, that's an easy sell and so many Chapters of Club Christian market that nonsense.
I think you are confusing Christianity and Santa Claus. The issue is not that Christianity is morally bankrupt but rather the Christianity that was sold to you is both morally bankrupt and pretty much brain dead. Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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GrimSqueaker Member (Idle past 2028 days) Posts: 137 From: Ireland Joined: |
Thank u for ur detailed reply, I'm clearly unfamiliar
With ur particular branch - so what exactly do u believe?
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jar Member Posts: 31771 From: Texas!! Joined: Member Rating: 2.6 |
Well I've made about 20,000+ posts here at EvC, many dealing with just that, trying to explain my beliefs, so it's unlikely I can sum it up in one post even if I forgo spelling, but you can start with Belief Statement - jar and once you work through that thread we can go to the next one.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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GrimSqueaker Member (Idle past 2028 days) Posts: 137 From: Ireland Joined: |
Damn more reading - ok, gimme a bit and I'll have a read
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kofh2u Member (Idle past 2160 days) Posts: 1162 From: phila., PA Joined: |
Why? Because it destroys the Family as the unit which builds sound and safe societies. The whole issue of being "saved" is about this matter.
BUT,... worse, the Feminization that takes place once women are allowed to use sex as currency creates a weak matriarchy by degrees.
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GrimSqueaker Member (Idle past 2028 days) Posts: 137 From: Ireland Joined: |
I really enjoyed your essay, it was very sweet and clear and honestly ur god doesn't seem all that different from the one my mom taught me about.
I still have a few bones to pick, although not on the subject of morality, but I'd really rather not pick them. U seem far to pleasant to debate, I hate to loos but I'd really rather not win that one Reason > Belief Even if we dont agree find me on Facebook, always happy to have new friends
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jar Member Posts: 31771 From: Texas!! Joined: Member Rating: 2.6 |
Feel free to pick.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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