Control and the FLDS

On my 40 minute commute to work I usually listen to audio books selected pretty much at random. Right now I'm in the middle of Stolen Innocence, the tale of a woman born into a secretive polygamous religious sect known as the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, the FLDS.I've often wondered how polygamous sects are able to provide multiple brides for each male member, and I've discovered that it works like this. In every society around the world a fair percentage of teenage members are troublesome. In the FLDS such males are forced out of the church, and the females are forced into early marriages that produce children. It was the forced marriage of Elissa Wall at age 14 that was the eventual downfall of Warren Jeffs, now serving a life term in Texas but from all appearances still leading the church as its president and prophet.What has struck me most is how easily an insular church like the FLDS can control its membership. Largely raised in isolated homogenous communities, church members are ill equipped for life on the outside, and they fear a society outside the church that they are told is evil and doomed to hell. A large degree of control is exerted through peer pressure and intimidation. Recalcitrants are threatened with loss of the gateway to heaven, which for men is having many wives, and for women is being wedded to a man with many wives. Woman are placed with men as brides as revealed to the prophet by divine revelation. Men who lose favor with the priesthood, usually for not being able to "control" their family, can have their wives and children placed with other men looked upon with greater favor.The control also extends to the economic. Elissa Wall's father founded and ran a business that provided the support for his family (a very large family with three wives and around 20 children), but using the excuse that the business was too worldly, Warren Jeffs forced her father to sell the business. To Warren Jeffs' sons.Naturally I wonder how people can allow their lives to be controlled to such a degree. I have no experience with any religion remotely like the FLDS, but after thinking about it a bit it doesn't seem all that different from places where I have worked. The specifics of the means of coercion are different, but it's basically the same thing. There are some things about my current place of employment that I and many others do not like, ranging from the barely significant to the extremely important, but have you ever tried to get people at work united behind something?An example might help. A few years ago our group of around 60 people was moved to a different part of the building. None of the rank and file had any say in the layout, and in fact the first time we had any idea what the new office area would look like was the day we moved in. The general consensus was that pretty much everything about it was horrible, from configuration to number of conference rooms to lighting to access (double security doors) to amenities (no local coffee or vending machines).A few months ago we discovered that our group was to be moved again. I tried to convince people that we should lobby for a say in the new office area, but there were no takers. In the end I had to do the lobbying by myself, to very little avail.Why was I unable to recruit any help in my lobbying effort? Most people see what they can potentially gain by going along to get along as greater than what they risk if they don't. And guess what? That's exactly the way FLDS members look at things. We're no different from them.Even though I'm by far the squeakiest wheel where I work (I've had shouting matches with the facilities VP, and I'm not sure the VP of my division is talking to me anymore), I too am behaving just like the FLDS members. Having 22 years at my company and being near retirement gives me the freedom for bits of daring I wouldn't have had in years past, but I know there are limits if I want the the opportunity to stuff the last few thousands of dollars into those retirement accounts before riding off into the sunset.So when we look on in wonder and perplexity at how organizations like the FLDS retain and control their members, we need look no further than ourselves for the answers.--Percy

I think you've missed the mark here. Based on conversations I've had with ex-members and reading things ex-members have written, it seems to have much more to do with brainwashing and people being born into that lifestyle, thus not knowing any better. The ones (teenagers) that do realize their life sucks get the boot, just like you say. Except: they are, again like you said, ill equipped for life on the outside and either come crawling back or something worse (homeless, turn to drugs etc). There could be somewhat of a Stockholm Syndrome as well.So when you say:

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We're no different from them.

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I think you are doing a MAJOR disservice to the people stuck in that situation. "We" are far different in pretty much every way but species, provided you mean people not a part of the FLDS. How you and your coworkers act in your workplace is more symbolic of the "American cog in the wheel" mentality where you are grateful to have a job and realize that if you rock the boat too much, you are out of work and very replaceable. People understand or feel that they have no rights as workers.Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.

Except for the specifics of our situations, we are just like them. We look in at FLDS members from the outside and question how they could make such obviously wrongheaded choices, but when we stop and consider for a while we understand that our own histories say that if faced with the same circumstances we would make the same choices.--Percy

The teenagers that are kicked out because there are too many males are often referred to as 'the lost boys'.

Been there. If you're the only one to speak up you're a malcontent. You're not a "team player" even if the whole team agrees with you (when nobody's looking).We have a similar situation here at EvC sometimes. Agree that evolution is true, capital punishment is bad and gays are fabulous and the team cheers with you. But take an unpopular viewpoint and the same people will jeer you even if they have nothing to say against your points. Buzsaw called them "sheeple" (though he didn't notice that he was looking into a mirror). It's wise man who can see the beam in his own eye.

There's a problem when someone presents a shitty argument for their position... it's shitty. Shitty arguments get shitty reviews.This is a forum where we actively debate each other for the purpose of debate. The better you do at debating the more cheers vs jeers you get. Arguments against evolution, equality, or for the death penalty (which I've tried to do myself) are usually not very good and lack evidence.It's not that people here are sheeple, it's that people here are very good at recognizing good arguments vs shitty ones.- Oni

There are some potentially very real consequences for those labeled malcontents at work. There are raises, bonuses, promotions, project assignments and office assignments. In my experience it turns almost everyone in the workplace into "sheeple".The FLDS has an even greater variety of rewards/penalties for controlling their people. Eternal salvation for a man is governed by how many wives he has, and wives are assigned by the prophet. The prophet can also take wives and children away and reassign them to men he feels more deserving. All property is owned by the church, and housing is assigned by the priesthood. Jobs are also controlled by the church, and the priesthood decides who can talk to who and can invoke a form of shunning. Families are under constant threat of being split asunder. Unmanageable teenage boys are sent to work camps and eventually cast out, girls are married off and impregnated. Leaving is extremely difficult as they're ill prepared for life in the real world, both socially and professionally. Few receive any formal training in any profession, and none go to college, except for converts who might have college in their background. No wonder they're sheeple.So I think many decide that the best course of action is to follow the dictates of the priesthood as zealously as possible and hope for the best. For those looked on with favor by the priesthood, life is pretty good.When Warren Jeffs was finally arrested (he was on the FBI's most wanted list) he was found with around $60,000 in cash and a garbage bag of envelopes from church members that had been opened just enough to remove the tithing money but with the letters still inside untouched and unread. How much evidence should a church member need to realize that Jeffs and the priesthood were exploiting them? Some are naive and no amount of evidence will do, but many others must have understood while also realizing that they were trapped because escaping would carry enormous personal and professional costs, along with considerable risk that it would ultimately prove unsuccessful, as the steady return of former exiles makes clear.Work has a similar kind of power and control. You're sitting there after a reorg and your new boss is lying to you (he doesn't know you know more than he thought you knew). Do you nod your head, or do you call him on it? You can call him on it and end up down in personnel being fired which you then successfully fight because you kept a mini-recorder on you and retain your job (true story, I kept the tape for years but finally threw it out the last time I moved offices), but I suggest you just nod your head.Whether it's work or the FLDS or whatever, those who make the most noise often pay the highest price, and knowing this keeps people in line. It's true wherever you go in life.--Percy

That isn't true though. Almost all of the jeers I get are from people who don't bother to address the argument at all. If it's a shitty argument, they ought to be able to point out why.