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Author | Topic: Fukushima Apocalypse | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.1 |
I just had this report e-mailed to me and I was wondering what some of the bright lights around here think of this report.
Fukushima Apocalypse Here is a small portion of the article.
quote: Is it as dire as the picture that is being painted?He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
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Rahvin Member Posts: 4046 Joined: Member Rating: 7.6
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It's an interview with an anti-nuke activist. Nothing but care nonsense. She's a "fallout researcher" who founded "Nuked radio." This isn;t the Atomic Energy Commission or the World Heath Organization. She's talking about bioaccumulation and other very bad things...that have so far cause zero deaths, no icnidence of cancer, and are not expected to cause any statistically identifiable deviation in cancer incidence from the rest of the population, and that is from the WHO.
For all the scaremongering, she completely ignores what has actually happened so far: from wiki: quote: 'The mainstream media, world governments, nuclear agencies, health organizations, weather reporters, and the health care industry has completely ignored three ongoing triple meltdowns that have never been contained' This is a major red flag that the speaker is a quack. All of the world governments, all of the scientists involved in the WHO, the International Nuclear Energy Commission, all of these people who exist simply to identify the very sort of emergency she's talking about have been ignoring the problem, but miraculously she realizes the true danger! It's no different from the 9/11 conspiracy theorists. And weather reporters?! Really? Meteorologists might be useful if there were actually airborne fallout as from an air-detonated nuclear weapon, but this is just absurd. Nuclear power is the safest method of power generation per unit of power generated by far. Fukushima has caused zero deaths. Zero. None. Nada. Not a single solitary person has died. Are there potential hazards in continuing the cleanup? Of course. But this statement?
'At least the northern half of Japan would be uninhabitable, and some researchers have argued that it already is' If Hiroshima and Nagasaki didn't render half of Japan uninhabitable, how precisely would Fukushima accomplish such a feat? The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it. - Francis Bacon "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity. — Albert Camus "...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." - Barash, David 1995... "Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends." - Gandalf, J. R. R. Tolkien: The Lord Of the Rings
Nihil supernum
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.1 |
Thanks Rahvin
I am totally uninformed on the situation and I'm glad to hear the other side of the issue which is far less apocalyptic. He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
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yenmor Member (Idle past 3685 days) Posts: 145 Joined:
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I personally have a grudge on these doomsday nutcases. Their overexaggerated tone turn people off to anything that sounds like a doomsday forecast. This is dangerous because normal everyday people can't tell the difference between what's real and what's not. Why do you think people still won't believe in global climate change?
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ramoss Member (Idle past 642 days) Posts: 3228 Joined:
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On the other hand, the truth is not all rosy either.
Fukushima Reactor still leaking radioactive water into the ocean While it is not nearly the 'doomsday' scenario that is mentioned earlier, neither is it a good situation.
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.1 |
Yesterday I read this on CNN.
Why Fukushima is worse than you think ...and today this on the Canadian news talking about a spike in radiation levels from one of the tanks.
Radiation Leak It sounds like after two years they are still a long way from getting it under control.He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
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ramoss Member (Idle past 642 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
I had heard estimates of 30.
On another note, the plumb of radioactive water that is spilling into the ocean from Japan should reach the north american shores in about 2014. It is good that it happens on the side of Japan that it did, because of the turbulent water diffused it. .. so it might not be as bad as if it wasn't defused. On the other hand.. I am not going to be eating sea food for a while.
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yenmor Member (Idle past 3685 days) Posts: 145 Joined: |
Well, no the news isn't too rosy. But you have to remember human nature. People tend to think in terms of extremes when it comes to things they don't understand. Most people have no idea what radiation is or what radiation sickness entails, much similar to the fact that most people don't know the difference between a viral infection versus a bacterial one. So, they think in terms of extremes.
To most people, a reactor leak is either good or bad. Just like how parents will insist that doctors prescribe anti-biotics to their kids for viral infections. Anti-biotics either works or it doesn't. They don't know or care about the details. This is why I would rather we let the experts in their respective fields deal with the situation and forego public opinion. The fukushima situation is far from apocalyptic. But it's not too rosy either. It's somewhere in between. Exactly where that is I will leave it to the experts to decide.
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.1 |
Thanks Yenmor
I have no personal point in this at all other than it seems like an area for concern and I live right on the western coast of the continent. It would be hard to find someone who knows less about it than I do. I just hope that the experts not only know what they are doing but that they actually have a workable plan. It does seem that so far their record hasn't been all that great. I'll be glad when we get solar energy down to the point that it is all we need, but right now we are a long way from that.He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
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yenmor Member (Idle past 3685 days) Posts: 145 Joined: |
GDR writes: I just hope that the experts not only know what they are doing but that they actually have a workable plan. It does seem that so far their record hasn't been all that great. Sometimes, it is easy for bystanders like ourselves to criticize without knowing the specifics. I have a friend who's a financial planner for a major corporation. One time, he told me that one time he overheard someone working at a mcdonalds talking on their lunch break telling his friend that he could perform white collar jobs just as well as these financial planners that you read about on the news. While my friend didn't say anything, he really wanted to say "if it's so easy, why don't you do it?" I'm an engineer by day and a programmer by night. I have a few programs published and copyrighted. So, I know the challenges that people in some of these professions face. Seems simple to the rest of the world, but it's really not when you're actually doing it. For example, one time I told someone about this time that in the company I worked at at the time where we knew we made a wrong calculation somewhere but couldn't figure out where. We had every engineer in the department go through line by line the plans to see where it went wrong. Well, it turned out to be a misplaced negative sign. This guy immediately said "that's it? I could have figured that out." I had to bite my tongue to keep myself from saying "if it's so easy, why don't you do it instead of working as a mover?" I'm no scientist. And I'm certainly no radiation expert. But I've encountered too many times in my life where normal people belittle my profession that I can appreciate how hard it is for these experts to deal with their respective situations. Now, the problem comes in when politicians who knew nothing about the subject intervene. It happens all the time in engineering. The most famous example is when Katrina hit. Every inspector said the levee was going to fail. There were groups of engineers who also warned the officials that the levees were very likely to fail in a major storm event. Well, we all know what happened after the officials ignored the warnings of experts. Now, there is a new problem on the horizon. Every engineering group in the country has been telling everyone that our bridges are due to fail in a few years. And yet what happened when the officials needed to slash budgets to accommodate for tax cuts? They slashed infrastructure budget. But that's a whole other story.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
I have a few programs published and copyrighted. Minor nitpick, but perhaps it might matter to you if you do any programming other than for an employer. Every original program you've ever typed into a computer and have not explicitly placed into the public domain is protected by copyright. It does not matter whether or not you've filed anything with the copyright office.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I believe that a scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy.Richard P. Feynman If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.1 |
I don't disagree with any of that but the experts put this plant where they did; it looks like the kept it going longer than they should have; we've got radioactive waste well out into the Pacific along with other links still occurring 2 years later.
I have no doubt they are doing all they can but it hasn't been pretty. I'm certainly not suggesting that it is easy and I'm not suggesting that I have the slightest clue as to what should be done. He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
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NosyNed Member Posts: 9004 From: Canada Joined: |
I don't doubt that there is a big screw up there in Japan but I don't see decent reporting on either side of it (maybe I haven't looked hard enough).
Reading about the amount of Cs137 laden water stored suggests there is a hell of a lot -- 100's of 1,000s of tonnes. And I don't like the idea of it getting into the Pacific (which I border too) much at all. However, what I'd like to see is a measure of what fraction of the radiation I get anyway this represents. How radioactive is a 'normal' sample of Pacific seawater? I lazy quick look at wiki suggests that the Fukushima release might be of an amount of radioactivity about the size of what has been dumped into the oceans before the 1993 ban. So it is not to be ignored at all. But it also hasn't all gotten there (yet?) and I suggest that doubling the man made dump into the oceans isn't by itself and "apocalypse".
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2136 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
Another factor: the half-life of Cs137 is just over 30 years.
So, the stuff is going away, although not as quickly as we might prefer. This can be added to the dilution factor you mentioned. I wonder if there are any good studies on the dispersion of things in the north Pacific from Japan to the US west coast that might be of help?
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Another factor: the half-life of Cs137 is just over 30 years. That kind of half-life is a double whammy. It is short enough to make Cs-137 active and dangerous and long enough to keep Cs-137 around for long periods of time.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I believe that a scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy.Richard P. Feynman If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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