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Author Topic:   Is Paul Ryan Racist?
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1485 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 1 of 35 (723268)
03-28-2014 12:40 PM


xenophobic
So, IS Paul Ryan a Racist? | BillMoyers.com
quote:
Our political class is feuding about whether Rep. Paul Ryan is a racist. Rather than fearing that this donnybrook degrades political discourse, we should welcome it.
Ryan sparked the controversy when he blamed poverty on a tailspin of culture in our inner cities, while invoking for support Charles Murray, notorious for postulating the genetic inferiority of blacks. Within hours, Rep. Barbara Lee rebuked Ryan for launching a thinly veiled racial attack.
Other critics immediately piled on, with a Politico piece appearing under the title Is Paul Ryan Racist? and Paul Krugman in The New York Times calling out Ryan for racial dog whistling. But hitting back, National Review editor Richard Lowry slammed Ryan’s critics for trying to drape him with the Klan’s white hood and The Wall Street Journal’s editorial page fumed, Republicans are accused of racism if they ignore the least fortunate, and now they’re racist for taking poverty and its causes seriously.
To begin with, insulting people is not taking poverty or the causes of poverty seriously: providing jobs and a living wage, providing health benefits and good public school education ... that is taking poverty and the causes seriously.
Racists don't think they are biased in my experience (both down south and in rural Michigan), they think they are right\eous. And it is pretty unconcious when they don't confront it or people don't push back.
But there is more to it than just race -- it is not understanding other people and particularly not understanding why they are not like you, and it is not respecting people that are different.
I call xenophobia, rather than race, xenophobia against poor of any color or background, xenophobia against other sexual orientations, or against Muslims ... it's all the same bag and baggage -- and the belief that people could change to be like you and should WANT to change to be like you.
When you attack people for not being like you, that is xenophobia.
NO, people want to be respected for what they are, they want the justice and the equality that is the TRUE American promise:
We believe these truths to be self-evident, that all people are equal ...
... and that means rich or poor we ideally live by the same laws and regulations.
Get rid of the biases for rich in courts and companies in politics and we would also be treating some of the causes for poverty.
Convict and jail the bankers that caused the economic meltdown that put a lot of middle class people into poverty or on the street, and we would also be treating some of the causes for poverty.
Edited by RAZD, : added

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Taq, posted 03-28-2014 1:31 PM RAZD has replied
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Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.7


(2)
Message 2 of 35 (723275)
03-28-2014 1:31 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by RAZD
03-28-2014 12:40 PM


Re: xenophobic
I call xenophobia, rather than race, xenophobia against poor of any color or background, xenophobia against other sexual orientations, or against Muslims ... it's all the same bag and baggage -- and the belief that people could change to be like you and should WANT to change to be like you.
I call it tribalism. Humans society evolved as smaller packs of hunter/gatherers, and we still carry those instincts today, IMHO. The bickering between Republicans and Democrats, Protestants and Catholics, Xbox and Playstation nerds, Star Trek and Star Wars geeks, etc. . . these are examples of our instinctual tribalism being repurposed into modern society. For Paul Ryan, his tribe is affluent, white, protestant asshats. Everyone else is a threat to his tribe and its success.

This message is a reply to:
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 35 (723277)
03-28-2014 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by RAZD
03-28-2014 12:40 PM


Re: xenophobic
Here's where I found a longer version of his quote:
quote:
Paul Ryan triggered a firestorm of recrimination this week. Speaking recently on Bill Bennett’s Morning in America radio program, the Wisconsin Republican and self-styled budget wonk linked poverty to this tailspin of culture, in our inner cities in particular, of men not working and just generations of men not even thinking about working or learning the value and the culture of work.
quote:
these comments elicited a quick and forceful rebuke from Rep. Barbara Lee (D-CA), who decried them as a thinly veiled racial attack. She explained: [W]hen Mr. Ryan says ‘inner city,’ when he says, ‘culture,’ these are simply code words for what he really means: ‘black.’
quote:
Ryan has since backpedaled, protesting that race was nowhere in his thoughts: This has nothing to do whatsoever with race. It never even occurred to me. This has nothing to do with race whatsoever.
I don't know if he's racist or not, but he didn't really say anything that was particularly racist, and Lee is just interpreting him into being a racist.

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Coyote
Member (Idle past 2186 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 4 of 35 (723279)
03-28-2014 2:21 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by New Cat's Eye
03-28-2014 1:49 PM


Re: xenophobic
Lee is just interpreting him into being a racist.
Lee would interpret the sun rising in the east as racist.
That's the business model she has chosen.

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1485 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 5 of 35 (723281)
03-28-2014 2:33 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Taq
03-28-2014 1:31 PM


Re: xenophobic
I call it tribalism. ...
That's where xenophobia comes from.
xenophobia (ˌzɛnəˈfəʊbɪə)
n
hatred or fear of foreigners or strangers or of their politics or culture
... basically their differences

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1485 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 6 of 35 (723286)
03-28-2014 2:40 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by New Cat's Eye
03-28-2014 1:49 PM


Re: xenophobic
I don't know if he's racist or not, but he didn't really say anything that was particularly racist, ...
That's why I go with xenophobia instead, as it isn't overtly racist but it is overtly attacking the culture and behavior of the poor people ... without specific reference to black white latino etc.
... and Lee is just interpreting him into being a racist.
A lot of people were offended by his comments, so they certainly were not comments one could call inviting of cooperation or indicative of a helpful attitude.
But then I doubt that Ryan is looking for cooperation (vis a vis his willingness to cooperate with democrats).

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 7 of 35 (723297)
03-28-2014 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by RAZD
03-28-2014 2:40 PM


Re: xenophobic
That's why I go with xenophobia instead, as it isn't overtly racist but it is overtly attacking the culture and behavior of the poor people
I don't see pointing out a perceived problem as being an attack. I'd like to hear the quote in context. The links say that he linked poverty to a culture tail spinning into not-working.
From what I see around me, that doesn't really seem inaccurate.
A lot of people were offended by his comments, so they certainly were not comments one could call inviting of cooperation or indicative of a helpful attitude.
Well, you can lead a horse to water...

This message is a reply to:
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NoNukes
Inactive Member


(3)
Message 8 of 35 (723316)
03-29-2014 12:28 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by New Cat's Eye
03-28-2014 1:49 PM


Re: xenophobic
Lee is just interpreting him into being a racist.
I would expect that someone who believes that the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was about colored people getting to force their company on people who hated them, would need to hear the N word before he acknowledged any racism.
When Mr. 2:50 marathon man talks about inner city problems is he interested in helping or in letting the base know he isn't going to help.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1485 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(2)
Message 9 of 35 (723338)
03-29-2014 6:35 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by New Cat's Eye
03-28-2014 3:58 PM


Re: xenophobic
I don't see pointing out a perceived problem as being an attack. ...
And yet what he says in essence is that poor people are lazy, just dressed up in new clothes as "a culture of men not looking for work" ... that imho is not pointing out a problem but saying that the poor people are the ones responsible for being poor (they are too lazy to find work). That is an insult, no matter how pretty the words appear to be.
... I'd like to hear the quote in context. ...
Google it then, I'm sure it will be on youtube or some news (or fox?) archive.
... The links say that he linked poverty to a culture tail spinning into not-working.
Without discussing why jobs are not available in general and jobs that pay enough to get out of poverty are not available -- what I would think would be actual causes of poverty -- and instead blames the people for not going out to find (non-existent) jobs.
Well, you can lead a horse to water...
So do you think someone who says in essence that the poor people are lazy and not looking for work, and that this is why they are poor ... do you think someone with this basic attitude is someone to be able to have an honest discussion of how to solve poverty in the US?
It appears I am not alone in thinking that Paul Ryan would not be a suitable spokesperson ...
Ryan Unsuited to Lead ‘Adult Conversation’ About Poverty
quote:
These days, a favorite talking point of Republican Congressman Paul Ryan’s is calling for an adult conversation about poverty.
It’s time for an adult conversation, he told The Washington Post.
If we actually have an adult conversation, he said in remarks at the Brookings Institution, I think we can make a difference.
The problem is that a prerequisite for any adult conversation is telling the truth and it is there the congressman falls monumentally short.
In addition to Rep. Ryan’s recent, racially-coded comments about our inner cities where generations of men [are] not even thinking about working, his rhetoric around policy should raise red flags for anyone including the media assessing his credibility.
A report from Emily Oshima Lee, policy analyst at the Center for American Progress Action Fund, examines the hatchet job Rep. Ryan did on Medicaid in his 204-page account of antipoverty programs that The Washington Post generously described as a critique. Indeed, Ryan’s report which would have been flagged by my excellent 10th grade English teacher for misrepresenting and cherry-picking data is a dangerous disservice to a public which has neither the time nor the staff that Ryan has at his disposal to delve into literature assessing antipoverty programs.
There is more in the article about how Ryan misrepresents facts and makes inappropriate comparisons.
He uses carefully chosen words to say the same old republican message: blacks are poor because they are lazy. Instead of saying "black" he uses "inner city poor" as if nobody would read\hear that and think that non-blacks were being discussed. He also ignores that a major part of poor people in the US are now rural white populations ... predominantly in red states ...

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
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Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 10 of 35 (723355)
03-31-2014 7:53 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by RAZD
03-28-2014 12:40 PM


Re: xenophobic
My wife, an atheist, and a PhD in organic chemistry, thinks that Paul Ryan is absolutely gorgeous. She said that if she were American, she would vote for him to be President, just to see his 'pretty face' on tv every day.
Some women, same as men, regardless of their education, could be quite shallow, too.

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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 35 (723364)
03-31-2014 10:37 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by RAZD
03-29-2014 6:35 PM


Re: xenophobic
So do you think someone who says in essence that the poor people are lazy and not looking for work, and that this is why they are poor ... do you think someone with this basic attitude is someone to be able to have an honest discussion of how to solve poverty in the US?
Its possible, but I'd bet that the alchemists had the same attitude towards their naysayers as well.
I think an honest discussion should include considering new problems that you haven't addressed yet, even if you don't like the sound of them. It should also include considering that everything you've been doing so far isn't working.
Bashing your naysayers as "not helping" is also not helping.
Did you catch wind of another quote that Bill Maher threw out there?
quote:
When it comes to getting an education, too many of our young people just can’t be bothered. They’re sitting on couches for hours playing video games, watching TV instead of dreaming of being a teacher or a lawyer or a business leader they’re fantasizing about being a baller or a rapper.
Now, we all know who they're talking about with "ballers" and "rappers". So, as your argument goes, do you think someone who says that young black people are uneducated because they aren't trying is someone who can have an honest discussion of how to solve the education problem in the US?
Because that one came from Michelle Obama.
Or is it only a problem when a white guy says it?

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Coyote
Member (Idle past 2186 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 12 of 35 (723366)
03-31-2014 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by New Cat's Eye
03-31-2014 10:37 AM


Re: xenophobic
Or is it only a problem when a white guy says it?
Of course! The "multiculturalism" and "diversity" movements are designed to put white guys in their place! That should be pretty obvious by now.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" does not include the American culture. That is what it is against.

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ringo
Member (Idle past 492 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 13 of 35 (723372)
03-31-2014 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Coyote
03-31-2014 11:26 AM


Re: xenophobic
Coyote writes:
The "multiculturalism" and "diversity" movements are designed to put white guys in their place!
That's because white guys are the ones who are out of place.

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Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.7


(5)
Message 14 of 35 (723376)
03-31-2014 4:53 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by New Cat's Eye
03-31-2014 10:37 AM


Re: xenophobic
I think an honest discussion should include considering new problems that you haven't addressed yet, even if you don't like the sound of them. It should also include considering that everything you've been doing so far isn't working.
The problem is the pure audacity of the political position on the conservative right. As an analogy, it's like your child telling you that he hasn't been in the cookie jar while everyone can see cookie crumbs all over his face, hands, and shirt front.
Conservatives have completely rigged the system so that it is much more difficult to crawl out of poverty than ever before. Robert Reich's film "Inequality for All" (available on Netflix) goes into a lot of it. For example, college tuition continues to increase at rates much higher than inflation:
Why is that? Conservatives have made it their goal to cut back on "spending" that just so happens to include education. As the government share of tuition goes down, guess who has to make that up? Students. As tuition rates skyrocket, guess who is left in the dust? The poor. At one time, university was within the financial reach of everyone, from poorest to richest. Not anymore. This is just one tiny example of many.
The tragedy is that so many poor people buy into the conservative rhetoric, mainly because the conservatives use religion as a red herring to cover up their pro-rich, anti-poor campaign.
Edited by Taq, : No reason given.

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roxrkool
Member (Idle past 1069 days)
Posts: 1497
From: Nevada
Joined: 03-23-2003


Message 15 of 35 (723392)
03-31-2014 11:31 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Taq
03-31-2014 4:53 PM


Re: xenophobic
When I was working on my B.Sc. (in the 90s), I worked 3/4 time for $8 per hour and went to school full time. Even at that wage, I could afford to pay for my college education and was able to graduate with zero debt.
Is that even possible these days? Rarely, I'm sure. Of course I wasn't so lucky with my M.Sc., but at least my current wages allow me to pay on the loans.
Due to skyrocketing college tuitions, I have plans to buy 4 years of college at today's cost for my son who is currently in sixth grade. It will be a good chunk of money up front, but I expect it will save me quite a bit of money six years from now. I'm just lucky I have the ability to do so.

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