Backwards debate: the flood

Backwards debate is my idea that instead of arguing your own belief, you argue the opposite. Creationists will support evolution, and evolutionists will support creation. I hope that this will allow us to understand each other better! I got this idea after seeing that one person commented "creationism is stupid"Rules:
1 argue for the other side. No exeptions!
2 no saying "i cant find any evidence for the other side"
3 Actually research and look for valid evidence for the other side!
Did the flood of the bible happen? What evidence is there for or against the world being flooded with water? Are you ready?
Let the games.... Begin!Edited by Bookworm7890, : No reason given.Edited by Bookworm7890, : Made topic more specific

Hi Bookworm,This website has many forums, each devoted to a major topic area of the creation/evolution debate (there's also a miscellaneous forum). Threads have a specific topic within one of the major topic areas. Your idea of a 'trading places" debate is fine, but you need an actual topic.Edited by Admin, : Typo.

I added a topic

Hi Bookworm,I understood from the title that you'd like to discuss the flood, but what specifically about the flood? If you glance through the Geology and the Great Flood forum you can see how many aspects of the flood there are to discuss. Recent threads discussed how the geologic column forms, Walther's Law, the ark, the Grand Canyon, where the flood waters came from and where they went, how limestone layers form, sea floor formation, plate tectonics, fossil distribution, ice ages, etc. etc. etc.If I could make a suggestion for a flood topic, how about presenting and discussing the physical evidence that the Biblical flood ever happened, meaning a global flood around 4500 years ago.

Thanks for the suggestion! I have edited the post as you requested. Appreciate the help!

Thread copied here from the Backwards debate: the flood thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.

Evidence supporting one (or more) great floods ca. 4350 years ago:The bible claims it.

The Biblical flood was very real, but it wasn't global, it didn't begin 4500 years ago, and it lasted far more than a year, right up to the current day. Around 10,000 years ago the Mediterranean breached the barrier separating it from the Black Sea, which was then half its current size. Water poured into the Black Sea over an immense waterfall for a century, eventually filling the Black Sea to current levels. The displaced civilizations scattered, some to the Levant where memories of the ancient flood became legends and myths that were one day recorded in the Bible.--Percy

Ok i notice that you begin by saying that the biblical flood happened, but then go on to say that it was very different from what we believe, But still, you actually did research instead of saying " the bible says so," and to coyote, yes the bible says so, but i said i wanted you to do some research on the subject, i am not complaining, i am attempting to make the rules a little more clear, all in all, i appreciate your willingness to contribute. And to percy, great job! Research, actually TRYING to prove the other sides' point, this is what i wanted from this thread. It takes very little effort to find proof in what you believe, but it takes a lot more effort to find evidence against what you believe, now coyote, if you are still reading this, please try harder, i am glad you chose to participate, but you are stereotyping christians as people who just say " the bible says you are wrong! So there!" We have scientists too! We have brains too! We are people too! Please dont get angry at me for this.P.S. actually coyote, you did state the reason that we believe in the flood, and that is, in a way, a good effort, i just put this at the end because other people may just say the same thing, and we would get nowhere.Edited by Bookworm7890, : Typographical error

I have debated those who believe in a global flood ca. 4,350 years ago for many years now on the web.I have yet to find any argument that they provide that goes beyond "the bible says so" that is not easily refuted.I have been doing archaeology for over 40 years, and have examined the time period ca. 4,350 years ago in probably close to 100 different sites. I have been able to find mtDNA evidence of continuity from over 5,200 years ago to the present without the discontinuity which would be necessary if there had been a global flood ca. 4,350 years ago. I also see continuity of culture, technology, and sedimentation without the disruption that a global flood would have caused.So, if my task is to argue that the flood did occur, I must fall back on "the bible says so" as that is the only thing that supports the idea of a global flood at that time period.

Well i guess it is my turn then, to begin i will also start with an overused but valid question, where did the water all go? Where would enough water to cover the earth even come from? Maybe christians just stole from the greek flood story!

Please pm me links to websites with evidence for evolution, Against the flood, etc. I have a feeling that backwards debate will have other topic(s) eventually. Maybe when this one is dead.

There are some threads in this forum in which many of the participants have already taken their best shots. Perhaps you can crib from there.As soon as you post a good argument, I'm just going to submit. You win!!

God can do magic, remember? Wait, I'm playing a creationist ... miracles. Not magic. Miracles. I'm sure there's a difference although if asked I'll be unable to say what it is. Anyway, since by hypothesis we're dealing with an entity that miracled the entire universe into being, he'd have no trouble making water appear and disappear.Now at this point you may be wondering why, given that he has miraculous powers, he didn't do his genocide by just wishing everyone dead, instead of what seems to us to be a rather roundabout method of flooding the Earth but putting the animals in a boat, etc. But you must remember that according to the Bible, God's ways are not our ways, nor are his thoughts our thoughts. (See Isaiah 55.) He can do things that to us would seem stupid, evil, or psychotic, and that's just God being God, and us not understanding how awesome he is.This means that whatever challenges you throw at me, I can invoke the existence of a being who can and who might do anything at all. I can hardly lose. If, for example, I wanted to defend the claim that the sky is green with pink spots, I am free to postulate that it is, but that for reasons known to himself, God is using his magical powers to make it look blue. By these means I can defend any position, no matter how contrary to reason, observation, the laws of physics, etc.Meanwhile you poor saps of evolutionists have to take into account tedious questions like what is actually possible, and what the evidence shows. When will you guys admit that my way is easier?Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

According to C. S. Lewis, the reason that pagan cultures bear similarities to the One True Religion (mine, by a bit of good luck) is that God inspired them to have myths similar to the Truth.Now in the case of the ancient Greeks you might come up with some pettifogging objection like why didn't he inspire them to not be polytheists and to not have sex with teenage boys quite so much. To which I reply Isaiah 55 again. An explanation involving God doesn't have to make "sense" to you. It only has to make sense to God. And, since we can't read God's mind, in practice that means that we only have to be able to imagine that it makes sense to God. And since we have established that his thoughts are not our thoughts, we can imagine that anything might make sense to God.