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Author Topic:   Should countries outlaw the hijab, niqab and burka?
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 491 days)
Posts: 1423
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 1 of 372 (771128)
10-19-2015 4:35 PM


Should countries outlaw the hijab, niqab and burka?

http://cloudmind.info/hijab-niqab-and-burka-faq/

More and more Muslims are immigrating into western nations with varying degrees of success.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thXCb1VUBDg&feature=playe...

Canada, not generally known as racist or intolerant, being a nation of immigrants, do not seem to have much use or tolerance for Muslim customs and having a religion dictate what women will wear, how they will be beaten and how they cannot refuse sex to their masters. Men.

http://www.therebel.media/in_quebec_the_niqab_issue?utm_c...

Is Canada becoming intolerant and fed up with religions or is there some other reason for Canadian hard line against the hijab, niqab and burka?

What of the U.S.?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqAJGXI5l88
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEHQU3w7Drc

Canada has not had a lot of problems to date. A few Honor killings when the young have refused to dress in the traditional way. I think that I would vote with the vast majority just to end Canadian Honor killings. I also see this as a safety issue in the sense that in a nation where so many do a lot of driving, to add blind spots caused by head and face wear seems like a poor idea.

To be frank though, I see Christianity and Islam as homophobic and misogynous religions and would vote for any measure that would reduce misogyny.

Are the large majority in Canada and elsewhere who would outlaw the hijab, niqab and burka wrong?

Regards
DL


Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Phat, posted 10-21-2015 11:29 AM Greatest I am has responded
 Message 4 by ringo, posted 10-21-2015 12:01 PM Greatest I am has responded
 Message 5 by Stile, posted 10-21-2015 12:04 PM Greatest I am has responded
 Message 6 by Coragyps, posted 10-21-2015 12:09 PM Greatest I am has responded
 Message 18 by Bliyaal, posted 10-21-2015 1:32 PM Greatest I am has responded
 Message 26 by Omnivorous, posted 10-21-2015 5:02 PM Greatest I am has responded
 Message 28 by RAZD, posted 10-21-2015 5:19 PM Greatest I am has responded

  
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Message 2 of 372 (771130)
10-21-2015 8:40 AM


Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum
Thread copied here from the Should countries outlaw the hijab, niqab and burka? thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.
  
Phat
Member
Posts: 12254
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 3 of 372 (771132)
10-21-2015 11:29 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Greatest I am
10-19-2015 4:35 PM


Freedom Of or From Religion?
Should countries outlaw the hijab, niqab and burka?
Absolutely not. We the people have no right to force religion to adhere to a certain social code. So long as the outfit is worn voluntarily, it should be the individual choice of the woman.

More and more Muslims are immigrating into western nations with varying degrees of success.
Assimilation is eventual and inevitable to a degree. Only the extremists could pose problems and challenges for their hosts. The moderates are just like the rest of us.

I see Christianity and Islam as homophobic and misogynous religions and would vote for any measure that would reduce misogyny.
The majority opinion and belief will prevail.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Greatest I am, posted 10-19-2015 4:35 PM Greatest I am has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Greatest I am, posted 10-21-2015 12:33 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

ringo
Member
Posts: 16362
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


(2)
Message 4 of 372 (771137)
10-21-2015 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Greatest I am
10-19-2015 4:35 PM


Greatest I am writes:

Is Canada becoming intolerant and fed up with religions or is there some other reason for Canadian hard line against the hijab, niqab and burka?


Canadians are not against the hijab, niqab and burka. We just booted out the government that was - and good riddance.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Greatest I am, posted 10-19-2015 4:35 PM Greatest I am has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Greatest I am, posted 10-21-2015 12:38 PM ringo has responded

Stile
Member
Posts: 3439
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 5.5


(1)
Message 5 of 372 (771138)
10-21-2015 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Greatest I am
10-19-2015 4:35 PM


Greatest I am writes:

Should countries outlaw the hijab, niqab and burka?

Outlaw it completely? No. That's a ridiculous over-reaction.
Outlaw it for purposes of acquiring identification? Yes. It blocks the ability to acquire an identification. - I have no issues with making some of the already-existing alternatives available for this purpose either... like having a woman officer identify you in a private room.

Are the large majority in Canada and elsewhere who would outlaw the hijab, niqab and burka wrong?

Outlaw it completely? Yes, they're wrong - it only seems petty.
Outlaw it for purposes of acquiring identification? No, they're not wrong - it only seems reasonable.

Canada, not generally known as racist or intolerant, being a nation of immigrants, do not seem to have much use or tolerance for Muslim customs and having a religion dictate what women will wear, how they will be beaten and how they cannot refuse sex to their masters. Men.

http://www.therebel.media/in_quebec_the_niqab_issue?utm_c...

Is Canada becoming intolerant and fed up with religions or is there some other reason for Canadian hard line against the hijab, niqab and burka?

Quebec is not a very good representation of Canada. They've even tried to leave Canada (and currently still try) at varying levels recently and throughout history.

Canada (as far as I can tell) has no issues with religions whatsoever. They simply have issues with anyone dictating what anyone else can wear, anyone beating anyone else, and non-consensual sexual relations. Religion is merely the tool being used by the criminals in this instance. The tool itself (religion) has many good uses as well. Removing the tool in this situation is not the proper correction. The proper correction is to remove the criminals.

Analogy:
When you have an issue with aggressive driving, you don't ban cars. You ban being aggressive behind the wheel.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Greatest I am, posted 10-19-2015 4:35 PM Greatest I am has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Greatest I am, posted 10-21-2015 12:48 PM Stile has acknowledged this reply
 Message 19 by Bliyaal, posted 10-21-2015 1:35 PM Stile has responded

  
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5381
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002
Member Rating: 8.4


Message 6 of 372 (771139)
10-21-2015 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Greatest I am
10-19-2015 4:35 PM


Are the large majority in Canada and elsewhere who would outlaw the hijab, niqab and burka wrong?

Does this large majority want to outlaw Pentecostal women wearing long sleeves and hemlines at the ankle? Do the want to force Mennonite men to wear clothes with buttons instead of hooks?
Damn right they're wrong.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Greatest I am, posted 10-19-2015 4:35 PM Greatest I am has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Greatest I am, posted 10-21-2015 12:51 PM Coragyps has not yet responded

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 491 days)
Posts: 1423
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 7 of 372 (771140)
10-21-2015 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Phat
10-21-2015 11:29 AM


Re: Freedom Of or From Religion?
Phat

Social/religious indoctrination/brainwashing takes away free choice even when women say they are wearing such things freely.

Honor killings running at about 5,000 per year worldwide says that Muslim men are controlling what their women wear. Not free choice.

I see such garb as men showing their claim to their women's freedom and in free countries like ours, that should not be allowed let alone advertised.

If we do not insure that the freedoms our women have is also allowed for oppressed Muslim women then we do not deserve our freedoms as the first responsibility of a free person and society is to insure that all within that society share in that freedom.

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Phat, posted 10-21-2015 11:29 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 491 days)
Posts: 1423
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 8 of 372 (771142)
10-21-2015 12:38 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by ringo
10-21-2015 12:01 PM


ringo

Let us hope that no fire ever finds a Canadian mosque or school with female children in it.

This is what inaction might just do and if you count the Honor killings that Canada has already tolerated, I think it way too much for the pleasure of women to wear what their men decide and force upon them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/.../2002_Mecca_girls%27_school_fire

We cannot prevent child brides either. Listen to one who was murdered for not wanting to marry an old man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CY4gNBf2n3o

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by ringo, posted 10-21-2015 12:01 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by ringo, posted 10-21-2015 12:43 PM Greatest I am has responded
 Message 10 by Porosity, posted 10-21-2015 12:47 PM Greatest I am has responded
 Message 20 by DrJones*, posted 10-21-2015 2:04 PM Greatest I am has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 16362
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 9 of 372 (771143)
10-21-2015 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Greatest I am
10-21-2015 12:38 PM


Greatest I am writes:

Let us hope that no fire ever finds a Canadian mosque or school with female children in it.


That probably will happen. It only takes one lunatic to start a fire. That doesn't justify in any way your claim that the majority of Canadians feel that way.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Greatest I am, posted 10-21-2015 12:38 PM Greatest I am has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Greatest I am, posted 10-21-2015 12:54 PM ringo has responded

Porosity
Member (Idle past 205 days)
Posts: 158
From: MT, USA
Joined: 06-15-2013


Message 10 of 372 (771144)
10-21-2015 12:47 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Greatest I am
10-21-2015 12:38 PM


Why not just raise well-educated, thoughtful, ethical, socially responsible, environmentally aware, and most importantly, godless children and watch the fundies go extinct?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Greatest I am, posted 10-21-2015 12:38 PM Greatest I am has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Greatest I am, posted 10-21-2015 12:58 PM Porosity has responded

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 491 days)
Posts: 1423
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 11 of 372 (771145)
10-21-2015 12:48 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Stile
10-21-2015 12:04 PM


Stile

We will have issues soon enough to add to the Honor killings we have already suffered.

Have a look at the other wonderful Muslim policies. Everything from sexual slavery, to general inequality.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWgpLXEfp3k

If you think our free countries should not give Muslim men a clear message that even they have to love by the equality rules of our country then I see that as us shirking our duty to Muslim women citizens.

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Stile, posted 10-21-2015 12:04 PM Stile has acknowledged this reply

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 491 days)
Posts: 1423
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 12 of 372 (771147)
10-21-2015 12:51 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Coragyps
10-21-2015 12:09 PM


Coragyps

Are those you named being forced to comply the way Muslim women are and are they getting Honor killed the way Muslim women and children are?

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Coragyps, posted 10-21-2015 12:09 PM Coragyps has not yet responded

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 491 days)
Posts: 1423
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 13 of 372 (771148)
10-21-2015 12:54 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by ringo
10-21-2015 12:43 PM


ringo

Strange that you call the fire starter a lunatic yet say nothing of the officials who prevented the girls from exiting the burning building because they were not wearing their slave apparel.

You speak of the perpetrator and not the victims.

Where is your sense of morality and justice?

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by ringo, posted 10-21-2015 12:43 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by ringo, posted 10-21-2015 1:04 PM Greatest I am has responded

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 491 days)
Posts: 1423
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 14 of 372 (771149)
10-21-2015 12:58 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Porosity
10-21-2015 12:47 PM


Porosity

Find a way to implement that and you can count on my vote.

Note that even for a relatively small adjustment to an evil religion, most here support the religious freedom to oppress their women and do not care about the victims of that religion.

Even ringo who is a woman.

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Porosity, posted 10-21-2015 12:47 PM Porosity has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Porosity, posted 10-21-2015 4:30 PM Greatest I am has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 16362
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 15 of 372 (771151)
10-21-2015 1:04 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Greatest I am
10-21-2015 12:54 PM


Greatest I am writes:

Strange that you call the fire starter a lunatic yet say nothing of the officials who prevented the girls from exiting the burning building because they were not wearing their slave apparel.


I didn't say anything about Santa Claus either, or any other fictional entity. We're talking about Canada. Why do you make up such nonsense?

Greatest I am writes:

You speak of the perpetrator and not the victims.


If those "officials" existed, they would be perpetrators too. That would be a very small number of people, not the majority of Canadians as you claim.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Greatest I am, posted 10-21-2015 12:54 PM Greatest I am has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Greatest I am, posted 10-21-2015 1:09 PM ringo has responded

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