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Junior Member (Idle past 1519 days) Posts: 25 From: St.Petersburg, Russia Joined: |
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Author | Topic: The great basic question of science on origin of life | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Vladimir Matveev Junior Member (Idle past 1519 days) Posts: 25 From: St.Petersburg, Russia Joined: |
The great basic question of science: Membrane compartment or non-membrane phase compartment (biophase) is a physical basis for origin of life?
Matveev V.V. 2016. Comparison of fundamental physical properties of the model cells (protocells) and the living cells reveals the need in protophysiology. International Journal of Astrobiology, Page 1-8. Preview PDF with highlights: http://www.bioparadigma.spb.ru/...Preview.and.Highlights.pdf The Biophase is the Physical Basis of Life Comments and critisim are welcome. Highlights Edited by Vladimir Matveev, : No reason given.
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Admin Director Posts: 12706 From: EvC Forum Joined: |
Can you introduce your topic in a little more detail? Defining your two alternatives and saying a little about the significant differences between them would be enough.
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Vladimir Matveev Junior Member (Idle past 1519 days) Posts: 25 From: St.Petersburg, Russia Joined: |
Are added details enough?
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Admin Director Posts: 12706 From: EvC Forum Joined: |
Thread copied here from the The great basic question of science on origin of life thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 149 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Welcome to the fray, Vladimir Matveev,
Interesting article
I have previously thought of the cell membrane as a means to preserve an environment where the replicating molecules survive and thus make them more viable than the molecules alone. In the above scenario we could have evaporating ponds providing the concentrations, then the cell membranes to protect them, perhaps in a semi-dormant phase, and then the pump. Enjoy
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Vladimir Matveev Junior Member (Idle past 1519 days) Posts: 25 From: St.Petersburg, Russia Joined: |
RAZD: "In the above scenario we could have evaporating ponds providing the concentrations, then the cell membranes to protect them, perhaps in a semi-dormant phase, and then the pump."
Matveev: Only one question: why membrane sodium pump is needed in the potassium pond? In the pond K+/Na+ ratio is the same as in the living cell.
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Percy Member Posts: 19885 From: New Hampshire Joined: |
If you'd used the quote codes your message would have looked like this:
See RAZD's Message 5 for an explanation of how to use quote codes, or see dBCode help for quoting. You can also click the Peek button for this message, but in that case ignore my use of the [indent] and [blockcolor]. They're only there for presentation purposes. --Percy
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Vladimir Matveev Junior Member (Idle past 1519 days) Posts: 25 From: St.Petersburg, Russia Joined: |
quote: Thanks, Percy.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 5494 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
First, evolution does not work with a purpose. Is there some reason such a pump, even a most primitive one, could not develop absent a need? Second, does the ratio remain the same forever?
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RAZD Member (Idle past 149 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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To contain the concentration when the pond is diluted (rains) and perhaps they get flushed out of the pond into a stream etc. So the proto-life is now capable of surviving drought with the membrane and flood with the pump. It is surviving to reproduce, it is evolving. I see "life" beginning when evolution begins - beneficial traits are passed down from generation to generation. See Definition of Life for discussion and Message 69 and Message 75 for more of my comments. Enjoy ps you can use the "peek" function to see how things are coded Edited by RAZD, : . by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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Vladimir Matveev Junior Member (Idle past 1519 days) Posts: 25 From: St.Petersburg, Russia Joined: |
quote: Sea tide floods potassium pond. And what happens after that?
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Vladimir Matveev Junior Member (Idle past 1519 days) Posts: 25 From: St.Petersburg, Russia Joined: |
quote: We need physical mechanisms rather than general assumptions. Pump, pump, pump... Where is experimental evidence of its spontaneous origin? There is no evidences, no proofs! No pump, no life.
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Percy Member Posts: 19885 From: New Hampshire Joined:
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For the sake of discussion let's say that there's no pump, and that that means there's no life. But obviously there's life, so what does the absence of a sodium pump mean to you? --Percy
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RAZD Member (Idle past 149 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
That was AZPaul3 in Message 9. The correct [reply] button is at the bottom of a post rather than at the top. Indeed, I like to think of it as a series of accidents, some happy some not so happy.
For the proto-life without a pump it has a problem maintaining it's optimum inner ecology, and osmosis would not help. Thus an "accident" that provided a pumping action would be beneficial, allowing it to survive and breed in the wider environment. Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : . by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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RAZD Member (Idle past 149 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Indeed, so now we need to look at what the physical mechanism is and then see if we can hypothesis and test how it could develop. Enjoy ps -- visited your lovely city in the 70's and rode on one of the hydrofoil boats. by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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