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Author Topic:   After Palmyra ISIS Targets Monuments on U.S. Soil
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 95 (780915)
03-27-2016 3:29 PM


... actually, it's our in-house ISIS ally: the U.S. Fascist Left.
quote:
"Removal of Confederate Symbols Turns Ugly in New Orleans" from CBS News:
"I think it should come down, just because of the symbolism behind it."
Yes, indeed! It does represent the infidels.
Has the Left become so short-sighted that it cannot see it is slowly becoming the very monsters it once fought?
From petitioning university presidents to silence political speech to the destruction of historical sites thought heretical, the Fascist Left has been pulling pages right out of the books of some of history's greatest turds in their effort to shelter themselves and others from a world they find distasteful and - oh no! - offensive; to erase everything that does not align with their worldview.
It's really too bad we can't have an honestly enlightened and progressive political movement in this country instead of the practice of trading one authoritarian regime for another.
And with that: Happy Easter!

Love your enemies!

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Phat, posted 03-27-2016 3:41 PM Jon has replied
 Message 4 by Modulous, posted 03-27-2016 6:53 PM Jon has replied
 Message 7 by Theodoric, posted 03-27-2016 10:39 PM Jon has not replied
 Message 8 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-28-2016 4:26 AM Jon has replied
 Message 12 by dronestar, posted 03-28-2016 10:42 AM Jon has not replied
 Message 21 by NoNukes, posted 03-28-2016 4:43 PM Jon has not replied
 Message 25 by ringo, posted 03-29-2016 12:31 PM Jon has replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 2 of 95 (780916)
03-27-2016 3:41 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Jon
03-27-2016 3:29 PM


Left Right Left
I never knew there were such as thing as a Fascist Left.
I was always taught that the ideological "right" were fascists in the extreme whereas the ideological left were communist/socialists in the extreme.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Jon, posted 03-27-2016 3:29 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Jon, posted 03-27-2016 4:40 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Jon
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 95 (780918)
03-27-2016 4:40 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Phat
03-27-2016 3:41 PM


Re: Left Right Left
I was always taught that the ideological "right" were fascists in the extreme whereas the ideological left were communist/socialists in the extreme.
On a spectrum that confuses things as distinct as cats and dogs I suppose.
But there is nothing stopping anyone from being a fascist, whether they align themselves with the Left or the Right.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
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Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 4 of 95 (780920)
03-27-2016 6:53 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Jon
03-27-2016 3:29 PM


actually, it's our in-house ISIS ally: the U.S. Fascist Left.
Wait, there are authoritarian anti-liberal socialist-hating nationalists in the US left?
Hm, who'd have known?
"I think it should come down, just because of the symbolism behind it." -- Lisa Huber, a 39-year-old greenhouse gardener
And your best evidence of this is a gardener who expresses her opinion when a journalist asks it? What a fucking fascist!
It does represent the infidels.
Has the Left become so short-sighted that it cannot see it is slowly becoming the very monsters it once fought?
From petitioning university presidents to silence political speech to the destruction of historical sites thought heretical, the Fascist Left has been pulling pages right out of the books of some of history's greatest turds in their effort to shelter themselves and others from a world they find distasteful and - oh no! - offensive;
Did you read the article you posted?
Because some liberals said 'the statues should be taken down', the City Council voted on it, and the vote passed and then people {who happen to be fans of the confederacy presumably} set fire to hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of property belonging to those who were going to carry out the democratically agreed upon act. Death threats were also issued.
How are the liberals the Fascists in this?
Petitioning people using speech is not Fascistic, voting on something and abiding by that vote is not Fascistic. Using arson and death threats is Fascistic. The liberals did the former. Presumably those that did the latter were a few nutters on the right wing - I believe the Confederate flag supporters are typically right wing, yes?
Also, removing a statue is not destroying a historical site.
Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Jon, posted 03-27-2016 3:29 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Jon, posted 03-27-2016 7:46 PM Modulous has replied

Jon
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 95 (780922)
03-27-2016 7:46 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Modulous
03-27-2016 6:53 PM


And your best evidence of this is a gardener who expresses her opinion when a journalist asks it? What a fucking fascist!
The evidence is the whole stream of nonsense sweeping the U.S. South regarding anything that may remind anyone of the Confederacy and the Fascist Left's repeated use of 'offense' to silence opposing view points.
Because some liberals said 'the statues should be taken down', the City Council voted on it, and the vote passed and then people {who happen to be fans of the confederacy presumably} set fire to hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of property belonging to those who were going to carry out the democratically agreed upon act. Death threats were also issued.
How are the liberals the Fascists in this?
Petitioning people using speech is not Fascistic, voting on something and abiding by that vote is not Fascistic. Using arson and death threats is Fascistic. The liberals did the former. Presumably those that did the latter were a few nutters on the right wing - I believe the Confederate flag supporters are typically right wing, yes?
The responses are unacceptable. But so is your argument that there is nothing fascistic about the whole thing simply because there was a 'vote'.
You are aware of the concept of the tyranny of the majority, are you not?
To argue that fascism cannot live off the willful voting of an authoritarian electorate bent on suppressing everything it finds contrary to its worldview is disingenuous and ignores the history of pretty much forever.
These folks are just Trumpees in blue hats with more favorable press.
Edited by Jon, : No reason given.
Edited by Jon, : No reason given.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Modulous, posted 03-27-2016 6:53 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Modulous, posted 03-27-2016 8:12 PM Jon has not replied
 Message 72 by Taq, posted 04-06-2016 3:18 PM Jon has replied

Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


(4)
Message 6 of 95 (780923)
03-27-2016 8:12 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Jon
03-27-2016 7:46 PM


The evidence is the whole stream of nonsense sweeping the U.S. South regarding anything that may remind anyone of the Confederacy and the Fascist Left's repeated use of 'offense' to silence opposing view points.
Except the opposing viewpoints in this case have raised a lawsuit.
And the city council and mayor have agreed to halt plans to remove the monuments until they have had their chance to be heard in court. The idea that anybody is being 'silenced' here is laughably wrong.
Nobody is using 'offense' to silence opposing view points. People have used 'offense' as part of their reasons for not wanting them proudly displayed in their city. Since when is this fascistic?
When someone says something like 'These are not people the city should be proud of. We should remove the statues and place them in a museum and use the space left as a place to put some real local heroes', they are using offense to silence their opponents and they are fascistic.
But when they say 'We should keep this in place, for historical reasons', they aren't using 'history' to silence their opponents and they aren't fascistic for so doing?
Seems like having a liberal opinion is fascistic but having a conservative one is fine. Sounds like a silly double standard.
The responses are unacceptable. But so is your argument that there is nothing fascistic about the whole thing simply because there was a 'vote'.
My argument that expressing your opinion, and having the government vote on something isn't intrinsically fascistic. Burning property and issuing death threats is fascistic from a historical perspective. You seem very happy to call the left 'fascists' for following the US' culturally accepted political methods of free speech and petitioning their government - even as they accept the checks and balances and patiently await the judicial branch to make their decision based on what their opponents say. Yet you only go so far as to say that trying to get one's way using criminal acts of property damage and personal coercion through threats of violence and murder is 'unacceptable'. And only after you were challenged on not doing so earlier.
You are aware of the concept of the tyranny of the majority, are you not?
Of course. But you are aware that you can't point to people who have an opinion, use their free speech rights to express their grievances, use their right to petition government, have the mayor agree and bring it to City Council for discussion, and then that City Council votes in favour of it and simply call them 'fascists'.
They might be. But that series of activities is not evidence in favour of the hypothesis.
What should somebody do, if they want the City to change the street furniture? I think they did exactly what they ought to. Perhaps instead of fascistically petitioning government they should have just blown the monuments up? At least that would only be merely 'unacceptable' in your eyes, eh?

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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(2)
Message 7 of 95 (780926)
03-27-2016 10:39 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Jon
03-27-2016 3:29 PM


an encyclopedia might help
You probably should do some basic research and find out what the term Fascist actually means.
In the words of Inigo Montoya.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Jon, posted 03-27-2016 3:29 PM Jon has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(2)
Message 8 of 95 (780929)
03-28-2016 4:26 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Jon
03-27-2016 3:29 PM


And Jon, there are many more parallel cases that are equally shocking. For example, after the fall of Communism many statues of Lenin were taken down. As were all those flags with hammers and sickles on them. I'm sure you were passionately against that.
Something very similar happened at the end of the Third Reich. You go to Germany today and you'll hardly see a swastika anywhere. Doubtless with your customary intellectual rigor you will blame the absence of Nazi symbols on "fascists", though thinkers inferior to your good self obstinately aver that it was in fact fascists who put them up. And doubtless you have been relentless in your campaign for the restoration of these historically important swastikas.
And how well you must remember the pernicious events that took place in Firdos Square, Iraq, when American vandals pulled down a statue of Saddam Hussein.
Perhaps if ISIS had existed at that time, you would have described the U.S. soldiers in question as "our in-house ISIS ally"; but that little rhetorical flourish being denied to you, I am sure that at least you were loud and vehement in denouncing the American servicemen who committed this atrocity as being fascists.
No. No you weren't. Which leaves us with two options. Either you are a vicious, stupid little troll simulating a concern you don't feel so that you can whine with factitious anger about black people (a.k.a. "the U.S. Fascist Left") doing something which in fact doesn't bother you in the slightest; or although it's not something that bothers you in general, you are so passionately attached to slavery, racism, and treason that you are genuinely upset by the removal of Confederate flags and statues in particular.
I am mildly curious to know which. And may I return your wishes for a happy Easter.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Jon, posted 03-27-2016 3:29 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Jon, posted 03-28-2016 7:22 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Jon
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 95 (780931)
03-28-2016 7:22 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Dr Adequate
03-28-2016 4:26 AM


Then where is drawn the line?

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-28-2016 4:26 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by jar, posted 03-28-2016 8:45 AM Jon has not replied
 Message 11 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-28-2016 9:40 AM Jon has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(2)
Message 10 of 95 (780932)
03-28-2016 8:45 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Jon
03-28-2016 7:22 AM


The line is drawn again and again as societies change. There is no line, only lines.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Jon, posted 03-28-2016 7:22 AM Jon has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(2)
Message 11 of 95 (780934)
03-28-2016 9:40 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Jon
03-28-2016 7:22 AM


Then where is drawn the line?
Well, apparently you personally do not draw the line at taking down the statues of the defeated leaders of a discredited regime. Unless the regime waged war on the United States in defense of slavery, in which case moving their statues is tantamount to Fascism and Islamic terrorism rolled into one.
I am merely urging a little consistency upon you, and suggesting that in that case you should adopt it as a general rule, while someone else, more tender-hearted than you towards historical iconography, might indeed denounce the American military as fascists and call for the restoration of all the statues of Saddam Hussein. While I would not go so far as to prescribe one rule for all men, I do feel entitled to suggest that, if he wishes to avoid charges of hypocrisy, each man should have just one rule.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Jon, posted 03-28-2016 7:22 AM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Jon, posted 03-28-2016 10:49 AM Dr Adequate has replied

dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 12 of 95 (780936)
03-28-2016 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Jon
03-27-2016 3:29 PM


'gay-loving, womanizer
Fascist Left?
Haven't heard that term since that 'gay-loving, womanizer' Bill Clinton was in office.
('gay-loving, womanizer' ~coined by air force Maj. Gen. Harold N. Campbell, 6/27/93. Amerikan military intelligence at its best.)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Jon, posted 03-27-2016 3:29 PM Jon has not replied

Jon
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 95 (780937)
03-28-2016 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Dr Adequate
03-28-2016 9:40 AM


Well, apparently you personally do not draw the line at taking down the statues of the defeated leaders of a discredited regime.
But you don't actually know my position on that issue.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-28-2016 9:40 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Modulous, posted 03-28-2016 12:36 PM Jon has not replied
 Message 15 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-28-2016 12:49 PM Jon has not replied

Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


(1)
Message 14 of 95 (780938)
03-28-2016 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Jon
03-28-2016 10:49 AM


Then where is drawn the line?
But you don't actually know my position on that issue.
I'm going to assume that these last two messages, quoted in their entirety, represent a concession speech. Two posts in a row within the first 15 posts of a thread where you don't address your own topic sounds to me like a concession anyway.
a) Calling your opponents derogatory names is a childish tactic.
b) Comparing people to fascists and ISIS for legally using their free speech is also an act of the stupid.
c) Comparing hiring one of the best contractors in the country to carefully remove century old statues so that they can be re-housed (And still displayed) in a more appropriate venue with blowing up ancient cities is a fucking moronic thing to do which utterly trivializes ISIS' actions in attempt to drum up hatred of liberals.
So if I'm correctly understanding how this is supposed to work, you should stop posting in this thread and hope it slowly drops off the front pages and slips from memory.

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Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 15 of 95 (780939)
03-28-2016 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Jon
03-28-2016 10:49 AM


But you don't actually know my position on that issue.
Well, if you think that I have misunderstood you, the floor is yours. You have had two opportunities, and now you have a third, to denounce the American soldiers who pulled down Saddam Hussein's statue as being fascists and "our in-house ISIS ally". You have a third opportunity to call for the restoration of Nazi symbols in Germany, and a third opportunity to say that the former Communist bloc, having freed themselves from tyranny, should nonetheless have continued indefinitely in the public commemoration of Lenin and Stalin as heroes. And if you do so then I for my part will freely confess that I have completely misjudged you.
Otherwise, yes, I do know your position, because sometimes silence speaks even louder than words.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Jon, posted 03-28-2016 10:49 AM Jon has not replied

Replies to this message:
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