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Author Topic:   Case against Kim Davis dismissed
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 21 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1 of 103 (790384)
08-30-2016 1:23 AM


Hadn't been keeping up with the news about these things but am very happy to hear that three lawsuits against Kim Davis have been dismissed and she is back at work, free from any requirement to sign her name to a gay marriage license. A victory for freedom, truth and sanity.

That and other heartening stories can be found at The Liberty Council


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Genomicus, posted 08-30-2016 5:38 AM Faith has responded
 Message 26 by Theodoric, posted 08-30-2016 10:37 AM Faith has responded

  
Genomicus
Member (Idle past 519 days)
Posts: 852
Joined: 02-15-2012


(1)
Message 2 of 103 (790387)
08-30-2016 5:38 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Faith
08-30-2016 1:23 AM


Hadn't been keeping up with the news about these things but am very happy to hear that three lawsuits against Kim Davis have been dismissed and she is back at work...

So you're happy to hear that the status quo of white cisgender privilege has been maintained? Okay.

... free from any requirement to sign her name to a gay marriage license.

Well, no one was forcing to her to take that job, so it's not like her individual liberties were curtailed.

A victory for freedom...

So this is what passes for "freedom" these days? Really?

...truth...

What truth?

...and sanity.

What part of prejudice and discrimination constitutes sanity?

That and other heartening stories can be found at The Liberty Council...

You mean that and other stories that promote white cisgender privilege can be found there.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Faith, posted 08-30-2016 1:23 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Faith, posted 08-30-2016 5:41 AM Genomicus has not yet responded

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 21 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 3 of 103 (790388)
08-30-2016 5:41 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by Genomicus
08-30-2016 5:38 AM


She had the job before the Supreme Court put her in a corner regarding her Christian faith.

Yes this is a victory for religious freedom. Gay marriage is a violation of God's Law.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Genomicus, posted 08-30-2016 5:38 AM Genomicus has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by vimesey, posted 08-30-2016 7:33 AM Faith has responded
 Message 66 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-31-2016 10:47 AM Faith has responded
 Message 82 by LamarkNewAge, posted 10-07-2016 6:24 PM Faith has responded

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1152
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 3.7


(5)
Message 4 of 103 (790397)
08-30-2016 7:33 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Faith
08-30-2016 5:41 AM


Gay marriage is a violation of God's Law.

So is working on the Sabbath, but I think it's right and proper to cast a dim view on those who would stone people to death for doing so.

As of a week ago, the third gay couple in my circle of friends got engaged, and I couldn't be happier for their joy and love. It's a fabulous step forward in our tolerance and understanding as a society, that we can celebrate and recognise more loving relationships that hurt no one.


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Faith, posted 08-30-2016 5:41 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Faith, posted 08-30-2016 8:02 AM vimesey has responded

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 21 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 5 of 103 (790399)
08-30-2016 8:02 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by vimesey
08-30-2016 7:33 AM


Is it not possible to have your opinion and let us have ours?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by vimesey, posted 08-30-2016 7:33 AM vimesey has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by jar, posted 08-30-2016 8:05 AM Faith has responded
 Message 7 by vimesey, posted 08-30-2016 8:10 AM Faith has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32722
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.8


(1)
Message 6 of 103 (790400)
08-30-2016 8:05 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Faith
08-30-2016 8:02 AM


You are free to have your opinion
You are free to have your opinion but not to break the secular laws. Sorry but secular laws trump what you might think are God's Laws.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Faith, posted 08-30-2016 8:02 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
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vimesey
Member
Posts: 1152
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 7 of 103 (790401)
08-30-2016 8:10 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Faith
08-30-2016 8:02 AM


It is absolutely possible. You are completely entitled to your opinion.

However, if you choose to state your opinion in a debating website, then I can feel free, I think, to challenge it.

And if someone (not saying you Faith - I'm referring to the other people we've been talking about on this and other threads), moves beyond stating an opinion, into taking actions or withholding something, in such a way as to discriminate against someone, then society is entitled to put limits on that discrimination. Society should not proscribe an opinion - but it should prevent acts of discrimination.


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Faith, posted 08-30-2016 8:02 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Faith, posted 08-30-2016 8:23 AM vimesey has responded

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 21 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 8 of 103 (790402)
08-30-2016 8:17 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by jar
08-30-2016 8:05 AM


Re: You are free to have your opinion
There is of course no freedom of opinion if it can't be acted on. Your attitude is the perfect noncompromising hatred of free speech for anyone you disagree with that would put Christians in jail regularly for refusing to violate their conscience. There should be no "trumping," but the whole LGBT attitude seems to be to force their views on those who refuse to accept them, to drive Christians out of business who won't accept gay marriage for instance, simply reject any form of compromise in favor of tyranny.

I think I read at that website though I don't remember for sure if that's where I read it, Kim Davis is no longer forced to have her signature on marriage licenses because of a law made since all this began that changed how the forms are designed. So gays can get their licenses and she isn't forced to do something that violates her Christian conscience. I think it may be that deputies issue the licenses rather than Davis herself as well. I'm not SURE I read this right, but it seems like a reasonable solution to me.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 21 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 9 of 103 (790404)
08-30-2016 8:23 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by vimesey
08-30-2016 8:10 AM


Sounds good but it's really just a form of tyranny that denies freedom of belief to those you disagree with, because there is no way to have freedom of opinion if you are forbidden to act on it. The solution it seems to me is to avoid situations where there is sure to be a clash. Don't ask a Christian bakery to design a wedding cake for a gay marriage and so on. Have some Danish and coffee and order your cake elsewhere. Common sense it seems to me. It's the confrontational attitude that is determined to vilify someone for "discrimination" who is acting on their conscience that is the problem.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by vimesey, posted 08-30-2016 8:10 AM vimesey has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by vimesey, posted 08-30-2016 8:38 AM Faith has responded
 Message 20 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-30-2016 10:03 AM Faith has responded
 Message 65 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-31-2016 10:44 AM Faith has responded

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1152
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 10 of 103 (790406)
08-30-2016 8:35 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Faith
08-30-2016 8:17 AM


Re: You are free to have your opinion
Hatred of free speech ? Hardly. You're using hyperbole for effect there Faith.

Freedom of speech is no different from any other right - it is limited, to the extent that it harms someone. And at that point, we do something to try to prevent that harm.

You can say "I'm entitled to my opinion, even if you disagree with it." You're not entitled to act in accordance with your opinion, if so acting brings harm to someone else.

Making that distinction is not hatred of free speech.


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Faith, posted 08-30-2016 8:17 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Faith, posted 08-30-2016 8:40 AM vimesey has responded

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1152
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 11 of 103 (790407)
08-30-2016 8:38 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Faith
08-30-2016 8:23 AM


And when it comes to suggestions that gay people should seek services elsewhere, is that not the same as saying that Rosa Parks should have sat elsewhere ?

Why should the person being discriminated against, have to make concessions?


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Faith, posted 08-30-2016 8:23 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Faith, posted 08-30-2016 8:46 AM vimesey has responded

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 21 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 12 of 103 (790408)
08-30-2016 8:40 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by vimesey
08-30-2016 8:35 AM


Re: You are free to have your opinion
Refusing to accept gay marriage is not "doing harm" to anyone. That's a totally bogus bit of political correctness. Refusing to sign a marriage license, refusing to make a wedding cake, refusing to take photos for a gay wedding, to call that "doing harm" is to make a mockery of law and speech. The harm that is done is on the other side against people whose conscience is violated by their demands. The harm is done by sending someone like Kim Davis to prision for refusing to sign marriage licenses; harm is done to the Christian business owners whose store was vandalized and they forced to leave it.

You need a major rethink here.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by vimesey, posted 08-30-2016 8:35 AM vimesey has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by vimesey, posted 08-30-2016 8:53 AM Faith has not yet responded
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 21 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 13 of 103 (790410)
08-30-2016 8:46 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by vimesey
08-30-2016 8:38 AM


And when it comes to suggestions that gay people should seek services elsewhere, is that not the same as saying that Rosa Parks should have sat elsewhere ?

Why should the person being discriminated against, have to make concessions?

No., that's utterly disgusting PC. Gays are not a race, they aren't really even a legitimate class at all that deserves any concession from society. The world has gone loony however and now we recognize them as a special class, ridiculous though that is, so I'm for some kind of compromise. I'm certainly not for treating them as equal to a race of people.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by vimesey, posted 08-30-2016 8:38 AM vimesey has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by vimesey, posted 08-30-2016 8:56 AM Faith has responded
 Message 77 by saab93f, posted 08-31-2016 1:26 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1152
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 14 of 103 (790412)
08-30-2016 8:53 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Faith
08-30-2016 8:40 AM


Re: You are free to have your opinion
I disagree. Any form of discrimination is harmful - it is saying to someone that they are entitled to less than someone else, because of the colour of their skin, or their gender, or their sexuality, or some other feature. It is deeply hurtful, and wrong in one of the most fundamental ways that something can be wrong.

I will agree that telling Christians that they will be held liable, if they discriminate in accordance with their faith, can be seen as imposing harm on Christians, in that they see themselves as being required to act against their conscience. However, what happens then is that we balance the harm to the person being discriminated against, with the harm to the Christian of acting against their conscience. I very firmly believe that the balance comes down hugely in favour of the gay couples whose sexuality is being discriminated against, rather than the Christians, who believe that someone else's un-chosen sexuality is a sin and an affront to their own opinions.

At its most basic level, you don't get a free pass to discriminate against someone, just because you believe that God said they're sinners.


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Faith, posted 08-30-2016 8:40 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32722
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 15 of 103 (790413)
08-30-2016 8:54 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Faith
08-30-2016 8:40 AM


Re: You are free to have your opinion
Faith writes:

The harm is done by sending someone like Kim Davis to prision for refusing to sign marriage licenses; harm is done to the Christian business owners whose store was vandalized and they forced to leave it.

Kim Davis broke the law. It is irrelevant whether her conscious made her break the law.

Vandalism is always wrong.

Kim Davis and the vandals were both criminals.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Faith, posted 08-30-2016 8:40 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
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