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Author Topic:   What is behind the "False News" paranoia? Is it paranoia? Does "False News" exist?
LamarkNewAge
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(1)
Message 1 of 16 (845783)
12-20-2018 10:14 PM


I was just attempting to understand what the heck got Dr. Jerome Corsi into the Mueller mess. I haven't been paying much attention to the political news in the past months (aside from the elections), and I only learned of the Corsi situation weeks ago. I immediately felt that there must have been an association with Roger Stone and that was how he somehow managed to get tangled up into this investigation.

I just found out that I was correct.

Corsi bragged, in 2017, that his 2016 articles were the spark that got Stone interested in WikiLeaks dumping the Podesta emails.

(It earned him multiple days of interrogation from the Mueller team.)

https://www.cnn.com/...i-plea-deal-robert-mueller/index.html

But Stone says he got tipped by a progressive associate of WikiLeaks.

https://www.cnn.com/...roger-stone-wikileaks-hack/index.html

(The alleged crimes, of ALL of these men, would be possible perjury, and not due to an association with WikiLeaks in and of itself)

I managed to start looking into the latest conspiracy theories, and got a bit off topic.

Vox had an article on some crazy stuff.But tucked into the solidly anti-conspiracy-theory article was this (sort of) nugget:

quote:

These postings were thrilling for people steeped in far-right conspiracy theory lore — from the very real Operation Mockingbird, a CIA effort to blackmail journalists and give out false information to share propaganda, to the wild theory that Huma Abedin, a former Hillary Clinton staffer and ex-wife of Anthony Weiner, was secretly working for the Muslim Brotherhood. (She wasn’t.)

https://www.vox.com/.../qanon-trump-conspiracy-theory-reddit


Mockingbird? What is this you say?

Here was article the the hyper link lead to:

quote:

How the CIA Paid and Threatened Journalists to Do Its Work

Americans love a good conspiracy theory, and plenty have been bandied about this election season. But what about conspiracy theories that turned out to be, well, not theoretical at all?

The CIA has long played the international game of propaganda required by an intelligence agency, but during the Cold War, the Agency paid and intimidated journalists into helping promote its messages. Famous Watergate reporter Carl Bernstein broke the story in 1977 for Rolling Stone. Bernstein revealed the workings of Operation Mockingbird, in which many journalists – included Pulitzer Prize winners – joined the CIA’s payroll, writing fake stories to disseminate the agency’s agitprop and providing intelligence. Other journalists were threatened and blackmailed into cooperating with Mockingbird, and many were given falsified or fabricated information about their actions in order to engender their support for the CIA’s mission. The program has never been officially discontinued.

Tom Cruise is back as Jack Reacher in Jack Reacher: Never Go Back, taking on a conspiracy of epic proportions in a fight for the truth. Don’t miss the action in theaters and IMAX, opening October 21

https://www.thedailybeast.com/...-journalists-to-do-its-work


(The 1977 Carl Bernstein RS piece can be found online)

The CIA is always very relevant when Jerome Corsi is the subject.

False news has always existed. Jerry Corsi is a right-wing type of guy, but he actually holds "left-wing" conspiracy theories such as the CIA killing JFK (which he says is a more important issue to him than anything) and the CIA being behind 9/11 2001. He just wrote a book that predicted Trump would be assassinated by the CIA due to his anti-war views. News Max has been promoting the book with mailers.

Jerry Corsi has been the conspiracy theorist that always gets major media attention.

2004

He wrote the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth book, Unfit For Command, which got major media attention.

2008

He was interviewed extensively (on every network!), during the campaign, once his book on Obama came out late in the race. He attempted to make the case that Obama was a Marxist.

2012 (or 2013, I forget)

The very day his book on Obama being foreign-born came out, Obama finally decided to present his birth certificate. Corsi, later that night, on Coast to Coast with George Noory, said he felt the newly released certificate was a forgery (though later arguments from Birthers centered around Hawaii supposedly having a looser policy on issuing birth certificates and one that would enable somebody foreign-born to get a Hawaiian birth certificate)

My conclusion?

My point?

This attention toward Jerome Corsi will really bring the False News debate into high gear. And he is articulate (and actually a pretty nice guy), and he really does seem sincere though many feel he can't be seen as 100% honest (for his endless advocacy of multiple conspiracy theories).

Perhaps the CIA should get attention when False News is a hot topic?

Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.


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AdminPhat
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From: Denver,Colorado USA
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Message 2 of 16 (845785)
12-20-2018 10:59 PM


Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum
Thread copied here from the What is behind the "False News" paranoia? Is it paranoia? Does "False News" exist? thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.
    
Percy
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From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 3 of 16 (845798)
12-21-2018 7:44 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by LamarkNewAge
12-20-2018 10:14 PM


Did you mean Fake News, Trump's mantra?

--Percy


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Phat
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From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
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Message 4 of 16 (845819)
12-21-2018 9:09 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Percy
12-21-2018 7:44 AM


Fake Fate Faith
Perhaps the argument on fake news is graduating. Why is it in the interests of the CIA to encourage it? Is there a political ideology behind Mockingbird? (or was there) Is this a Right v Left thing?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


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Stile
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Posts: 3372
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 4.3


(2)
Message 5 of 16 (845822)
12-21-2018 10:06 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by LamarkNewAge
12-20-2018 10:14 PM


LamarkNewAge writes:

What is behind the "False News" paranoia? Is it paranoia? Does "False News" exist?

I think False/Fake News exists.
I think it's existed long before the last 5 years or so.

I think it's term has sort of been abused lately, though.
It seems to mean "news I don't want to hear about" more than purposefully-inaccurate news, though.

News has it's own built-in method for detecting falsities.
Sort of like science, but not quite as rigorous.

When news is inaccurate - people know about it. They complain and the news agency corrects it.
If too many complain about the same company, or if a company slacks off on making accuracy corrections - people simply go somewhere else for their news.
The dollar talks, and forces news companies to remain accurate.

Do some things slip through the cracks? Absolutely. Some by accident, some on purpose.
Is this anything more than a blip on the radar? No.
Is there a wide-scale, multiple news-agency conspiracy to force inaccurate stories onto the public? Absolutely not. There's too much money to be made proving them to be false and taking over their business.

So, what is the current day usage of "Fake News?"

It's a term used by people who want to say-whatever-they-can in order to make whatever-point-they-want at the moment.
It's usage today, has no connection with 'actually inaccurate news' because accurate news stories are called "Fake News" all the time, most notably by Trump.


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LamarkNewAge
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Posts: 1367
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 6 of 16 (845924)
12-22-2018 10:22 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Percy
12-21-2018 7:44 AM


I meant Fake News (not "False" News).
The mantra might not belong to Trump, alone.

I did a google search. (FAKE NEWS RUSSIA were the search words)

The most recent hits in Google NEWS do seem to be Trump-ish leaning outlets.

quote:

Trump Defends Syria Pullout After US Envoy's Protest Resignation
RadioFreeEurope/RadioLiberty-7 minutes ago
Syria has been engulfed in a bloody civil war since 2011, with Russia and Iran backing ... The Fake News is making such a big deal about this nothing event!

Trump slams US envoy to anti-ISIS coalition for his resignation
Axios-18 minutes ago
The Fake News is making such a big deal about this nothing event! ... If anybody ... Russia uses these campaigns to create discord over divisive issues. There's ...

'Russian Bots' in 2017 Alabama Senate Election were Actually ...
TruNews-1 hour ago
Purported evidence used to reinforce this narrative included a group of supposed Russian “bots”—fake social media accounts—that were engaging in “fake ...

Report: Democrats Spent As Much On Fake Russian Bots As The ...
legal Insurrection (blog)-2 hours ago
According to reports, Democrats spent the same amount of money on fake Russian bots intended to spread disinformation and fake news as the Russians spent ..

Democrats Created Fake Russian Twitter Bots to Influence Election
WebProNews-2 hours ago
The New York Times reported that Democrats created fake Russian Twitter bots in a disinformation campaign, also known as fake news, in order to influence ...

Russian campaign to get social media to 'grow a spine and vote Jill ...
Daily Mail-4 hours ago
Cyber experts showed that Russians attempted to siphon away votes from Hillary Clinton, the Democratic Party candidate, by boosting Stein through fake ...

Here's how Trump has achieved Russia's policy goals
ThinkProgress-5 hours ago
There has never been a president who has been tougher (but fair) on China or Russia – Never, just look at the facts. The Fake News tries so hard to paint the ...

Democrats spent same amount of money building fake Russian bots ...
BizPac Review-7 hours ago
Joe Simonson, DCNF. While the debate rages on over how much Russia really influenced the results of the 2016 presidential elections, one detail put the entire ...

The Russian effort to divert votes to Jill Stein was more extensive than ...
ThinkProgress-8 hours ago
The extent of Russia's involvement in the 2016 election is well-documented ... on a network of fake accounts whose online reach is thought to be in the tens of ...

To Help Trump Win, Pro-Jill Stein Campaigns Were Launched By ...
Hill Reporter-12 hours ago
To Help Trump Win, Pro-Jill Stein Campaigns Were Launched By Russia Right ... A Senate report found the account to be fake and led by Russian intelligence.

Israeli-Russian relations strained following US withdrawal from Syria
The Jerusalem Post-12 hours ago
“This could just be a version of 'fake news' because we are talking about the potential withdrawal of only 2,000 American soldiers. The U.S.' main military ...

CNN International
Russian meddling found in midterms
Arkansas Online-12 hours ago
The statement contained little detail, but U.S. officials said the intelligence report found that Russia continued to use social media, fake personas and ...

Senate's outside Russia investigators tied to Democratic project to ...
BizPac Review-13 hours ago
The head of the firm behind a report on ongoing Russian influence campaigns in the United States was part of a Democratic project to create fake Russian bots ...

Russians launched pro-Jill Stein social media blitz to help Trump win ...
NBCNews.com-14 hours ago
According to a report commissioned by the Senate, the account was a fake, part of the Russian campaign to sway the 2016 presidential election in favor of ...


But, if you skip down the VERY first of the first 100 hits, then it is more 50-50 in its pro/anti Trump RATIO.

See this set of links a ways down.

quote:

Trevor Noah: 'How deep does the Russian rabbit hole go?'
The Guardian-Dec 19, 2018
Late-night hosts examine Russian suppression of African American voters and the downfall of Michael Flynn .... As a result, fake is in danger of overriding fact.

How Russia Is Still Running Interference For Trump
Forbes-Dec 19, 2018
The Russian operatives unloaded on Mueller through fake accounts on Facebook, Twitter and beyond, falsely claiming that the former FBI director was corrupt ...

Guardian challenged over 'fake' Assange & Manafort story, as Luke ...
RT-Dec 19, 2018
Some wondered whether Harding, a constant critic of the Russian state, had been placed on “gardening leave” following the publication of his 'exclusive.' ...

MSNBC's Russia 'expert': Moscow terrorizing US with meme-filled ...
RT-Dec 19, 2018
Millions of impressionable American minds are being corrupted by Russian-linked memes, “the cruise missiles of fake news”, according to MSNBC's ...

Russian whistleblower died of natural causes, rules coroner
The Guardian-Dec 19, 2018
A coroner has ruled that a Russian millionaire died of natural causes when he collapsed outside his home in .... As a result, fake is in danger of overriding fact.


It seems that the mainstream media is using the term to describe foreign intelligence operations.

Thus my references to the United States intelligence agency (C.I.A.) as being guilty of starting such a "Fake News" type of paranoia was spot on.


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LamarkNewAge
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Posts: 1367
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 7 of 16 (845926)
12-22-2018 10:48 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Phat
12-21-2018 9:09 AM


Re: Fake Fate Faith
quote:

Perhaps the argument on fake news is graduating. Why is it in the interests of the CIA to encourage it? Is there a political ideology behind Mockingbird? (or was there) Is this a Right v Left thing?

Most consider the CIA to be a right-wing nationalistic organization.

If you said the "CIA killed JFK" then you were promoting a left-wing conspiracy. A left-winger blames the right-wing folks.

Those who said the government covered up a Castro and/or Soviet killing of Kennedy were said to be promoting a right-wing conspiracy theory. The right-wingers prefer this type of theory.

However.

The John Birch society is a right-wing type of a conspiracy promoting organization.

When congressman Larry MacDonald (D-Mississippi) was killed in a South Korean airliner, by the Soviet Union's missile, then right-wing conspiracy theorists said that the congressman/John Birch Society president was killed by the deliberate targeting of the Soviets. MacDonald felt the CIA was packed with left-wingers, which was characteristic of the organization he led.

The (John Foster and Alan) Dulles brothers were somehow guilty of "selling out the United States" to Communists according to the Birch Society.

To everyone else, they are the total right-wingers they always were.

The CIA promotes right-wing propaganda, but they infiltrate ANY outlet of influence. (John Birch Society member's beliefs aside)


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LamarkNewAge
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Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 8 of 16 (845927)
12-22-2018 10:48 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Phat
12-21-2018 9:09 AM


Re: Fake Fate Faith
quote:

Perhaps the argument on fake news is graduating. Why is it in the interests of the CIA to encourage it? Is there a political ideology behind Mockingbird? (or was there) Is this a Right v Left thing?

Most consider the CIA to be a right-wing nationalistic organization.

If you said the "CIA killed JFK" then you were promoting a left-wing conspiracy. A left-winger blames the right-wing folks.

Those who said the government covered up a Castro and/or Soviet killing of Kennedy were said to be promoting a right-wing conspiracy theory. The right-wingers prefer this type of theory.

However.

The John Birch society is a right-wing type of a conspiracy promoting organization.

When congressman Larry MacDonald (D-Mississippi) was killed in a South Korean airliner, by the Soviet Union's missile, then right-wing conspiracy theorists said that the congressman/John Birch Society president was killed by the deliberate targeting of the Soviets. MacDonald felt the CIA was packed with left-wingers, which was characteristic of the organization he led.

The (John Foster and Alan) Dulles brothers were somehow guilty of "selling out the United States" to Communists according to the Birch Society.

To everyone else, they are the total right-wingers they always were.

The CIA promotes right-wing propaganda, but they infiltrate ANY outlet of influence. (John Birch Society member's beliefs aside)

Content hidden. Exact duplicate of previous message. - Adminnemooseus

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Content hidden. Exact duplicate of previous message. - Adminnemooseus


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Diomedes
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Posts: 799
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 3.4


(2)
Message 9 of 16 (845936)
12-23-2018 10:39 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Stile
12-21-2018 10:06 AM


I think False/Fake News exists.
I think it's existed long before the last 5 years or so.

I think it's term has sort of been abused lately, though.
It seems to mean "news I don't want to hear about" more than purposefully-inaccurate news, though.

Misleading news is nothing new. As you indicated, it existed far before the modern era. (Ever read Pravda?) I think the reason it gets more traction now is social media. Because individuals have the ability to tailor their news sources to whatever fits their preconceived narrative, it is easier to pigeon hole individuals into only believing certain sources of news and discounting others as 'fake news'. Trump's favorite catch phrase.

From my perspective, what bothers me is not necessarily outright 'fake' news, but the obvious bias various news outfits have when it comes to the types of stories they publish. It's no revelation that the Drudge Report leans heavily right and its equally obvious that the Huffington Post leans heavily left. The bias has also found its way into the 24 hr news channels which in my opinion are all garbage now. Fox News pushes the Republican agenda. MSBNC pushes the Democrat agenda. And CNN is essentially left leaning with a heavy emphasis on what I call 'disaster porn'. Hence their 'Breaking News!' ever five minutes methodology.

What I try to do is focus on news sources that, while not perfect, at least give me the ability to review the information more dispassionately. BBC News from my perspective is pretty decent. It does lean left, but it has a world view including reporters in different geographic regions like Singapore. This gives different perspectives which I like. Bloomberg does that as well with offices in Hong Kong and Australia. And also, the PBS Newshour is still, in my opinion, a pretty well rounded news source.

Nothing of course is perfect.


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Stile
Member
Posts: 3372
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 4.3


(1)
Message 10 of 16 (846139)
12-30-2018 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Diomedes
12-23-2018 10:39 AM


Diomedes writes:

What I try to do is focus on news sources that, while not perfect, at least give me the ability to review the information more dispassionately. BBC News from my perspective is pretty decent. It does lean left, but it has a world view including reporters in different geographic regions like Singapore. This gives different perspectives which I like. Bloomberg does that as well with offices in Hong Kong and Australia. And also, the PBS Newshour is still, in my opinion, a pretty well rounded news source.

Agreed.

Nothing of course is perfect.

Yes.

Not even the "self-correcting" part I mentioned is fool-proof.
It's true that the news will follow the money.
But the money doesn't always come from "people wanting to know the truth."
A lot of times the money comes from "people wanting to hear things that confirm beliefs they hold." (The "belief" may be religious or political or many various things.)

I'm not sure how to develop a system that counteracts this problem.
Although the pledge of social media streams like Facebook to "remove Fake News" (hopefully doing some sort of fact checking) seems to be a decent start.
It will be interesting to see how it plays out.


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LamarkNewAge
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Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 11 of 16 (846190)
12-30-2018 6:08 PM


Can't find any foreign policy threads (including my own ones)
I suppose I will post here a concern of my own, though it might be off topic (or not).

Trump announced that he would pull out of Syria and (it seems) Afghanistan.

The 2 governments have been telling him to get the heck out.

Democrats (and the media) are throwing a fit.

(I know they are because I got into an unpleasant argument with one, as I read Woodward's book Fear, which showed that Trump was arguing against his generals over their totally contrary policies on Afghanistan. He wanted out and said he opposed the war for "17 years", while they wanted to add troops. It was ironically just a day before the Syrian announcement)

So:

Trump says he wants to take all 2000 troops out of Syria.

(Like the Syrian Arab Republic people want)

Democrats are crying out loud.

But:

He FLAT OUT refused to take the 5,200 troops out of Iraq, like the Iraqi people (and government) want.

(No Democrat is attacking Trump on Iraq)

Democrats still seem to have something of a "white supremacy" mindset, like so many of the the party members always have had (Republicans have historically been way more pro immigration and anti-racism, on the eastern side of the U.S.A. anyway).

Trump is actually going against the wishes of the government/people of Iraq, but seems to be moving into line with the Syrian and Afghanistan people's position.

I object to his Iraqi position but am roughly approving his position on the other 2. But, then again, I am not a white supremacist. So I see things differently it seems. My views aren't being aired in the media stories I have read. Iraq isn't even mentioned in opinion pieces, but Syria and Afghanistan sure are. And the Asian/Middle Eastern people aren't getting any respect in the blather.


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Adminnemooseus
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Posts: 3877
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 12 of 16 (846201)
12-31-2018 2:47 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by LamarkNewAge
12-30-2018 6:08 PM


How to find old topics
LamarkNewAge said:

Can't find any foreign policy threads (including my own ones)

The way to search for your older topics:

1) Use the forum's "Search" function found in the bar at the page top.

1) Leave "Search Termes" blank.

2) Select a Forum (in this case, "Coffee House", "All Open Forums" is the default).

3) Select "Thread Titles" ("Messages" is the default).

4) Enter your ID.

5) Hit "Search" button.

Up to a limited number (all in your case), the "Coffee House" topics you started will display in chronological order.

Adminnemooseus


Or something like that©.

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LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1367
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 13 of 16 (847680)
01-25-2019 8:13 AM


Jerry Corsi and Roger Stone update.
WASHINGTON—Roger Stone

(Sorry I can't offer my own worthless comments, as I am limited for time, but here are good articles)

(Corsi just wrote a book talking about this investigation being a perjury trap)

First: the Bombshell

quote:

Trump associate Roger Stone arrested for witness tampering, false statement charges
By ERIC TUCKERThe Associated Press
CHAD DAY
Fri., Jan. 25, 2019

WASHINGTON—Roger Stone, a confidant of President Donald Trump, was arrested Friday morning in the special counsel�s Russia investigation and was charged with lying to Congress and obstructing the probe.

The seven-count indictment against Stone, a self-proclaimed �dirty trickster,� is the first criminal case in months from special counsel Robert Mueller and provides the most detail to date about how Trump campaign associates were aware in the summer of 2016 that emails had been stolen from the Hillary Clinton campaign and wanted them released. It alleges that unnamed senior Trump campaign officials contacted Stone to ask when the stolen emails might be disclosed.

Read more:

�I had no contact with Assange,� Roger Stone says

Trump aides caught in web of deception over Russia contacts

Roger Stone pal Jerome Corsi refuses plea deal from Mueller

The indictment does not charge Stone with conspiring with WikiLeaks, the anti-secrecy website that published the emails, or with the Russian officers Mueller says hacked them. Instead, it accuses him of witness tampering, obstruction and false statements about his interactions related to WikiLeaks� release. Some of those false statements were made to the House intelligence committee, according to the indictment.

The indictment lays out in detail Stone�s conversations about stolen Democratic emails posted by WikiLeaks in the weeks before Trump, a Republican, beat Clinton. Mueller�s office has said those emails, belonging to Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta, were hacked by Russian intelligence officers.

It says the Trump campaign directed a senior campaign official to contact Stone after the July 22, 2016, WikiLeaks release of hacked emails from the Democratic National Committee and other groups. That official, who is not named in court papers, asked Stone about additional releases and �what other damaging information� WikiLeaks had �regarding the Clinton campaign,� the indictment says.

Stone is scheduled to appear in court in Florida later Friday. The indictment had been expected. Stone has said for months he was prepared to be charged, though he has denied any wrongdoing. A grand jury for months had heard from witnesses connected to Stone. And the intelligence committee last year voted to release a transcript of Stone�s testimony to Mueller as a precursor to an indictment.

to Mueller as a precursor to an indictment.

Stone has publicly denigrated the Mueller investigation and echoed the president�s descriptions of it as a witch hunt. But he has long attracted investigators� attention, especially in light of a 2016 tweet that appeared to presage knowledge that emails stolen from Podesta would soon be released. Stone has said he had no inside information about the contents of the emails in WikiLeaks� possession or the timing of when they�d be released.

He has said he learned from Randy Credico, a New York radio host, that WikiLeaks had the emails and planned to disclose them. Stone has released emails that he says support that assertion.

Prosecutors had offered a plea agreement to Stone friend Jerome Corsi that would have required the conspiracy theorist and conservative author to admit that he intentionally lied to investigators about a discussion with Stone about WikiLeaks. But he rejected the offer.

In a tweet Friday, Podesta wrote that it was now �Roger�s time in the barrel.� That was a play on Stone�s own words. Stone had tweeted cryptically before the Podesta emails were disclosed that it would soon be Podesta�s �time in the barrel.�

https://www.thestar.com/...ring-false-statement-charges.html


Then, a superb article from just before the bombshell arrest this morning.

The Washington Post has done some of the best journalism on this and other issues.

quote:

By Manuel Roig-Franzia and
Rosalind S. Helderman January 24 at 5:21 PM

Over the past several months, author and conspiracy theorist Jerome Corsi has emerged as one of special counsel Robert S. Mueller III�s most vexing witnesses in his probe of Russian interference in the 2016 campaign.

Corsi � perhaps best known for promoting the false idea that former president Barack Obama was not born in the United States � has released internal special counsel documents, fulminated against alleged plea-deal offers and published a hastily written e-book outlining his account of interactions with his onetime ally, the longtime Trump adviser Roger Stone, a subject of intense scrutiny in Mueller�s probe.

At the same time, Corsi says, he has been collecting what he describes as $15,000-a-month payments from Infowars, a website that has attacked the special counsel investigation as a deep-state conspiracy designed to topple President Trump.

An attorney for Infowars confirmed that these payments continued for the past six months as severance since Corsi lost his post as the website�s Washington bureau chief � a job that Stone helped arrange, according to both Corsi and Stone.

The revelation of Corsi�s arrangement with Infowars offers new context to the now-frayed relationship between Corsi and Stone, and how the on-again, off-again alliance between two of America�s foremost conspiracy theorists has drawn the attention of Mueller�s investigators.

[Special counsel examines conflicting accounts as scrutiny of Roger Stone and WikiLeaks deepens]

Stone has said that research conducted by Corsi informed his predictions in 2016 that WikiLeaks would publish material damaging to Hillary Clinton�s presidential campaign. Mueller has charged Russian intelligence officers with hacking Democratic emails and providing them to WikiLeaks. For months, he has been investigating whether Stone was working in coordination with the group, which Stone adamantly denies.

As part of the investigation into Stone, Mueller�s prosecutors have interviewed a number of his associates and zeroed in on his relationship with Corsi, including emails between the two men in which Corsi indicated he had insight into WikiLeaks� plans, according to Corsi.

On Thursday, Corsi�s stepson, Andrew Stettner, appeared before a grand jury hearing evidence in the case for about an hour. Afterward, his attorney Larry Klayman told reporters that Stettner had been questioned about his handling of Corsi�s computers.

Investigators have also asked questions about Corsi�s payments from Infowars, according to a person familiar with the special counsel investigation. Mueller�s team appears to be exploring whether the payments were made to ensure that Corsi would offer investigators a version of events favorable to Stone, the person said.

Corsi said in an interview that he does not remember being asked by Mueller�s investigators about the payments. But he added that his brain was �mush� after 40 hours of questioning over several days and that he may have forgotten.

�It�s really pretty far-fetched,� Corsi said of the notion he was paid to keep quiet. �I�m the guy who has talked the most. I haven�t been hushed by anything.�

Stone, who has said he has not been contacted by the special counsel, called the suggestion that he helped Corsi get work to silence him �both ridiculous and false.�

The extent of the special counsel�s interest in Corsi�s arrangement with the website is unclear. An attorney for Infowars said the site has not received any request for information from Mueller. A spokesman for the special counsel�s office declined to comment.

After The Washington Post made inquiries about the payments last week, Corsi said he learned from Alex Jones�s father, David, that the payments would stop, according to a legal complaint Corsi filed this week against The Post.

An Infowars attorney disputed that, saying that Corsi was fired in June and was paid the remainder of a one-year contract that ended this month. His Infowars pay had already been scheduled to end this month, the attorney said.

�Any claim that he stopped receiving those payments because of The Washington Post asking questions does not appear to be supported by any facts I know of,� Infowars attorney Marc Randazza said.

In a letter to Corsi dated Jan. 18 � a day after The Post first interviewed him � David Jones wrote that he had agreed to pay the remainder of Corsi�s contract after he was terminated in June �because of our history and contract considerations.�

�As I discussed with you some time ago I cannot indefinitely pay your salary continuation,� Jones wrote in the letter, which was posted online by Stone. Jones added that he would terminate the contract as of Jan. 31.

In an interview last week with The Post, Corsi offered two explanations for the payments that have drawn the interest of prosecutors. Initially, he described them as consulting fees related to the �exploratory� phase of a �fake news� project that he and David Jones � a former dentist who is the director of human resources for Infowars � were considering launching. Corsi said that the payments were �not directly related to Infowars.�

Corsi later described the payments as severance after he left his post of Washington bureau chief for Infowars over the summer, a position that Stone helped him secure in early 2017 after Trump took office.

Stone, Corsi and Alex Jones all said that the Infowars job and the payments Corsi received after leaving are not related to Corsi�s role in the Mueller probe.

�I assisted him because he was constantly whining about being broke,� Stone said in an interview.

Corsi declined to comment on Stone�s characterization of his finances.

In an Infowars column published Jan. 18, Jones wrote that �hiring Corsi had nothing whatsoever to do with WikiLeaks or any kind of �hush money� operation, which is an absurd claim.�

He noted that Corsi was hired almost two years before being interviewed in the special counsel�s investigation and he described payments to Corsi as �routine six months severance pay� following Corsi�s departure from Infowars in June.

Corsi filed a complaint Monday against The Post; its owner, Jeffrey P. Bezos; and Manuel Roig-Franzia, one of the authors of this article, who had interviewed Corsi about his relationship with the website. The complaint amended a previously filed lawsuit that names as defendants Mueller, the FBI, the National Security Agency and the Central Intelligence Agency. It seeks $1.6 billion in damages, including at least half of that from Bezos.

In the lawsuit, Corsi claimed The Post�s reporting amounted to �tortious interference� with his business relationship with Infowars.

A Post spokeswoman declined to comment on the lawsuit.

Corsi and Stone, who have become intertwined in the Mueller probe, were first brought together by Donald Trump.

Stone has previously told The Post that he first became aware of the conspiracy theorist and conservative writer when Trump posed a question to him in 2011: �Who is this guy, Jerome Corsi?�

When Stone asked Trump why he wanted to know about Corsi, Trump responded: �I�ve been talking to him.�

Corsi had recently published a book titled �Where�s the Birth Certificate: The Case That Barack Obama Is Not Eligible to Be President.� Trump became the most ardent public proponent of Corsi�s theory, staging splashy public appearances to taunt Obama to provide more proof about his birth.

Both men were ardent supporters of Trump�s 2016 campaign and collaborated in hopes of getting the New York developer elected to the nation�s highest office.

[Trump�s night-owl calls to Roger Stone in 2016 draw scrutiny in Mueller probe]

During the campaign, Stone has said he hired Corsi to conduct research about the Clintons and the Democrats. Later, they would offer conflicting accounts of their work together.

A key moment came on July 22, 2016, when WikiLeaks published tens of thousands of internal emails from the Democratic National Committee. The cache revealed tensions within the party during the primary contest between Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) and Hillary Clinton. The revelations resulted in the resignation of the party chairwoman.

There was widespread speculation about what else WikiLeaks might have and when the group would release it. Stone saw an opportunity.

On July 25, 2016, Stone emailed Corsi and asked him to try to make contact with WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange and get copies of hacked emails in his possession, according to a draft court document drawn up by Mueller�s investigators. In November, Corsi publicly released the document, which he said he been provided by the special counsel�s office during failed plea negotiations.

Stone has said he was reacting to claims Assange had made on television about having damaging material about Clinton, characterizing his interest in the potential disclosures as no different from that of journalists and political operatives at the time.

When investigators first asked Corsi about the email, he claimed that he told Stone that trying to reach Assange could result in an investigation and they should wait for WikiLeaks to release material publicly, according to the draft court filing.

Corsi provided early alert to Stone about WikiLeaks release, according to draft special counsel document

But, according to the filing, Corsi actually forwarded Stone�s email to a London-based associate and later wrote Stone an email about WikiLeaks� plans. �Word is friend in embassy plans 2 more dumps,� Corsi wrote Stone on Aug. 2, 2016, according to the draft filing.

Corsi has said he surmised what WikiLeaks would do based on public reporting at the time but did not make contact with Assange.

That same month, Corsi has said in interviews, he told Stone that he believed � based on his own analysis of the DNC emails released in July � that WikiLeaks had hacked emails from Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta.

He has said he believes his tip is why Stone tweeted �it will soon [be] the Podesta�s time in the barrel� on Aug. 21, 2016 � about six weeks before WikiLeaks began releasing Podesta�s emails.

Stone has denied that Corsi told him WikiLeaks had Podesta�s emails and said his tweet was based on unrelated research Corsi had provided him about John and his brother Tony Podesta�s financial ties to Russia.

Stone�s tweet was one of several statements he made before the election suggesting he was in contact with Assange and had advance knowledge of WikiLeaks�s plans to release hacked emails � comments now under scrutiny by the special counsel.

Since the election, Stone has insisted he had no contact with Assange and did not know what the group planned. He has denied all wrongdoing and said he has been unfairly targeted by Mueller.

Stone and Corsi�s relationship continued after Trump�s election victory.

Stone suggested that they both go to work for Infowars, Corsi said in an interview. Randazza, the Infowars attorney, told The Post that Corsi was one of about 15 people whom Stone recommended to Jones as possible chiefs of the new Washington bureau for the conspiracy site. Randazza said Jones believed Corsi was the best and most experienced of the list.

Stone became a co-host and frequent commentator on the site, a position he maintains to this day. Corsi got the bureau chief job in Washington.

Corsi, who has a securities license, said he also took an interest in the business operations of the site, approached Alex Jones about financing options for Infowars.

�Alex was not wanting investors,� Corsi said in an interview. �We had some differences. Those differences, over time I think, led to our parting of the ways.�

In the column published by Infowars, Alex Jones wrote that Corsi�s employment with the company ended in June after Corsi�s �failure to adequately establish a Washington bureau, his failure to maintain White House press credentials and his generally poor work performance.�

Corsi said in an interview that he could not remember if he �was fired or I quit.�

�We just kind of mutually � without talking about it � decided I wasn�t working there anymore,� Corsi said.

Three months after his split with Infowars, Corsi was subpoenaed in the Mueller probe. At the time, Corsi�s attorney said that he would cooperate fully with the investigation.

It wasn�t long before his role as a witness caused friction with Stone and the two began attacking each other publicly. In November, Corsi asserted in interviews that Stone had urged him to come up with a cover story to explain the Podesta tweet by sending a research memo nine days after the tweet had been posted.

Stone has said that the memo was simply memorializing conversations they had had before the tweet and called Corsi�s claim �both categorically false and ludicrous � not to mention illogical.�

Corsi also said in November that he�d been cooperating with Mueller�s team but had decided to reject a plea deal proposed by prosecutors because it included a requirement that he admit to lying about his interactions with Stone.

Conservative author and Roger Stone associate Jerome Corsi says he is rejecting plea deal from special counsel

From their respective corners of the Internet, the two conspiracy maestros have spent the months since then in verbal combat with Mueller and each other.

In his lawsuit, Corsi declared that Mueller and the media were in cahoots to set in motion a �legal coup d�etat� to either indict Trump or remove him from office. On Infowars last week, Stone and Alex Jones discussed a grand scheme by prosecutors and the media to arrest both of them, as well as Jones�s father, Trump and Vice President Pence, to install House Speaker Nancy Pelosi as president and Hillary Clinton as vice president. Stone then predicted that Pelosi would resign and Clinton would become president.

As their feuds with each other and with the special counsel�s office have deepened, both Corsi and Stone have taken to appealing to a higher power.

Corsi took to Twitter recently to accuse Mueller and the �Deep State� of trying to destroy him and his family.

�If I can hold a pen, I will not be silenced,� he tweeted. �In the end, God always wins.�

On Instagram, Stone declared that Corsi, a friend turned enemy, would suffer for not standing by him: �God will strike this liar down.�

Spencer S. Hsu contributed to this report.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/...45-3f74070bbdb9_story.html


This is convoluted, and the issue seems to be based on inaccurate comments before congress and Mueller.

Corsi says he simply could not remember everything exactly as it happened, and he did not lie.

Edited by Admin, : Trying to track down the reason for the "question mark" characters. Substituted one character so I can look at it in the database.


Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by JonF, posted 01-25-2019 9:40 AM LamarkNewAge has responded

    
JonF
Member
Posts: 4469
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.4


(1)
Message 14 of 16 (847682)
01-25-2019 9:40 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by LamarkNewAge
01-25-2019 8:13 AM


Re: Jerry Corsi and Roger Stone update.
FWIW, that's violating copyright.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-25-2019 8:13 AM LamarkNewAge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-26-2019 2:53 PM JonF has not yet responded

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1367
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 15 of 16 (847775)
01-26-2019 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by JonF
01-25-2019 9:40 AM


Re: Jerry Corsi and Roger Stone update.
I have been told, by people who actually work for publications, that the concern for (no profit) quoting/duplicating complete copies of articles IS NOT TOO GREAT as long as it isn't done too often.

Thanks for your thoughtful post though.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by JonF, posted 01-25-2019 9:40 AM JonF has not yet responded

    
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